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Re: Poor Law and elusive relative

PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:31 pm
by clare_bear
steve bannister 1 wrote:Hi Clare,

Glad to see that you're finding out so much!

Interesting that Crisilda was not the only child of Ethel's to be fostered out. There is definitely a minefield of family secrets here. Hope you get to the bottom of them.

Sorry I haven't been of much help lately, I've been moving, settling in, unpacking, etc.

Been following your story, though.

Steve.


Hi Steve

No worries on you not being around much to help - you've been absolutely key in unlocking all thi so far! Hope the move went well and you're settling in.

As you say, a lot of secrets to discover here!

Cheers
Clare

Re: Poor Law and elusive relative

PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 4:26 am
by Jade2906
Hi Clare and other listers. My Dad, Stanley Williams, was one of Ethel Medina's children too.
Ann Pryor Richards and William Pearce Williams were married in 1874, and had two children, both of whom appear to have died in infancy (Ihaven't been able to trace a registration record for one) before Ethel and her sister Loveday Jane Pryor Williams arrived on the scene.
According to Ethel's birth certificate, Ethel (The second name, Medina, only appears in a later census), was born on the 21st of January, 1878, in Job's Water, Constantine. Father: William Pearce Williams, granite mason. Mother: Ann Prior Williams, formerly Richards. The birth was registered by Ann Prior, who signed with her mark, on the 26th February, 1878.
The birth certificate for 'Flossie', who appears as a grandchild on the 1901 census with Ernest, both with the surname Symons, probably an error, because in 1911 they are both noted as Wiliams. reads: Leatie Flossie May Reed, born 14th March, 1897, at Pollen - grain, Wendron. Mother: Ethel Medina Williams. Birth registered by A. P. Richards (Ann Pryor Richards), present at the birth, Pollen - grain, Wendron, reg. on the 1st May, 1897.
The birth certificate for my Dad reads: Stanley, born 26th January, 1901, Pollengrain Wendron R.D.
Mother: Ethel Williams. Registered by Ethel Williams, Mother, Pollengrain Wendron, 16th February, 1901. In the 1901 census, Ethel is with her family at Pollengrain, Wendron - Ann Pryor Williams and William Pearce Williams, Loveday Williams, and two visiting Symons children, plus Flossie and Ernest.
My Dad, Stanley, had already been 'taken in to nurse' by Harriet Ann Gribble, in Porkellis, and was raised with her family. He was registered at Four Lanes School as Stanley Gribble. Cheers, Jan.

Re: Poor Law and elusive relative

PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:22 am
by clare_bear
Thanks, Jan, the story is intriguing, and you've done so much more research than me!

Re: Poor Law and elusive relative, Ethel, Loveday

PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 2:35 am
by Jade2906
Hi Clare, I haven't found anything new re Carrie/Crisilda, but have a little more information about the family that might interest you. Now have the death certificate for Ethel Medina Williams: Died 22nd November 1933, Polangrain, Wendron, aged 55 years. 'Spinster of no occupation. Daughter of William Pearce Williams (deceased) Stonemason journeyman. Died of 'Mitral Disease'. Son-in-law W.E. Wearne present at the death. (Ethel's daughter Leatie Flossie May Reed Williams (still living at Polangrain) married William Ermest Wearne 16 April 1921).

Have also tracked down the grandson Ernest (Symons in 1901. Williams in 1911 census). I have his birth certificate: Born 15 October 1899 at Polangrain Wendron. Ernest William. Father William Chegwidden. Mother Loveday Jane Chegwidden, formerly Williams. Father's occupation: Tea dealer. (The mark of Ann Williams, present at the birth, Polangrain, Wendron. reg. 4 Nov 1899.

Loveday almost certainly didn't marry William Chegwidden - think she married a Stevens later - but will have to go look at my notes to check this. How is your research on Carrie progressing? Best, Jan.

Re: Poor Law and elusive relative, Ethel, Loveday

PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 7:49 am
by clare_bear
Jade2906 wrote:Hi Clare, I haven't found anything new re Carrie/Crisilda, but have a little more information about the family that might interest you. Now have the death certificate for Ethel Medina Williams: Died 22nd November 1933, Polangrain, Wendron, aged 55 years. 'Spinster of no occupation. Daughter of William Pearce Williams (deceased) Stonemason journeyman. Died of 'Mitral Disease'. Son-in-law W.E. Wearne present at the death. (Ethel's daughter Leatie Flossie May Reed Williams (still living at Polangrain) married William Ermest Wearne 16 April 1921).

Have also tracked down the grandson Ernest (Symons in 1901. Williams in 1911 census). I have his birth certificate: Born 15 October 1899 at Polangrain Wendron. Ernest William. Father William Chegwidden. Mother Loveday Jane Chegwidden, formerly Williams. Father's occupation: Tea dealer. (The mark of Ann Williams, present at the birth, Polangrain, Wendron. reg. 4 Nov 1899.

Loveday almost certainly didn't marry William Chegwidden - think she married a Stevens later - but will have to go look at my notes to check this. How is your research on Carrie progressing? Best, Jan.



That is fantastic! I have to confess my research has been on hold for a bit, but you've kickstarted my enthusiasm again now! I'm just off home to Cornwall, so I'll pass this on when I get home.

All the names are names that are in family folklore - Wearne, Chegwidden....I'll talk to Carrie's daughter and see if any of this helps joins some dots.


You are a star, thank you very much for sharing. Clare

Re: Poor Law and elusive relative

PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:09 am
by peteroneill197
The 1911 Census shows the following:

ALLEN, Fanny Head Married F 50 1861 Char-Woman Wendron
ALLEN, Tommy Son M 11 1900 School Helston
WILLIAMS, Carrie Lodger F 11 1900 School Wendron
MEDLIN, Samuel Lodger Widower M 50 1861 Labourer Stone Breaker Wendron Cornwall

From what you say this is your person

Happy Hunting

Peter

Re: Poor Law and elusive relative

PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 4:31 pm
by clare_bear
peteroneill197 wrote:The 1911 Census shows the following:

ALLEN, Fanny Head Married F 50 1861 Char-Woman Wendron
ALLEN, Tommy Son M 11 1900 School Helston
WILLIAMS, Carrie Lodger F 11 1900 School Wendron
MEDLIN, Samuel Lodger Widower M 50 1861 Labourer Stone Breaker Wendron Cornwall

From what you say this is your person

Happy Hunting

Peter


It certainly is, thanks Peter.

I've looked for Joe Allen, who was Fanny's son and who grew up with Carrie, but I can't find a census record near by for him - I wonder if was once called Tommy! Nobody seems to have ever kept their birth names and were known as all sorts of other names!

Re: Poor Law and elusive relative

PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 1:06 am
by Jade2906
Hi Clare, quick note - meant to mention that William Chegwidden lived next door to the Williams family at Polangrain - see 1901 census. He was blind (1891 census says from an explosion). Look forward to hearing what you discover - exciting isn't it? Cheers, Jan.

Re: Poor Law and elusive relative

PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 2:06 am
by Jade2906
Jade2906 wrote:Hi Clare, quick note - meant to mention that William Chegwidden lived next door to the Williams family at Polangrain - see 1901 census. He was blind (1891 census says from an explosion). Look forward to hearing what you discover - exciting isn't it? Cheers, Jan.


Hi Clare, noticed your comment on 'Joe Allen'. The 1911 census only shows Fanny as 'married - widow'and having had 4 children, all born alive, and still living. In 1901 these seem to be Annie 21, James 14, Ellen 9, and Tommy (Thomas?) 11 months. Fanny is also a tricky one to trace - despite Annie being 21 in 1901, it may be that she didn't marry Thomas Allen until 1890 - and then under the name of 'Francis' (as in 1891 census) of 'Frances' as in marriage 1890. I think Thomas may have died in 1900. You probably know lots more about her than me, but think our Fanny may have been 'Fanny Williams Pryor, bap. 2 Sep 1860 in Carmenellis, daughter of Eliza (nee Williams) and John Pryor, living in Rame. In the 1881 census, Fanny (still unmarried) had a brother Joseph H Pryor aged 15 - could this be your 'Joe'? Other children are William Pryor 17, and Elizabeth Pryor 9. Eliza (nee Williams) Pryor, died in 1876, and John Pryor remarried - so wife shows as Mary J. on this census, with a new baby 4 months old, and a step-son Thomas Williams. That's as far as I've got - and could be quite wrong! Hope you had a great time in Cornwall. Cheers, Jan.

Re: Poor Law and elusive relative

PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 1:46 pm
by porthlevenpixie
Hello Clare!

I was searching ancestry for Carrie Williams, saw a place name pollegrain and googled to find out where that was exactly and found your thread! I hope you still check this thread as i'd love to hear back from you....i'd had a quick skim of the messages so apologies if i repeat anything you already know.

My Great Great Grandmother was Frances Allen (nee Pryor i think!), she married Thomas Allen and they lived at Lowertown and in Helston. Later on in life she married a Coombes....but we'll forget that part for now as it's irrelevant. Frances (or Fanny as we called her) had a daughter called Ellen, who is my Great Grandmother, Ellen's first son was illegitimate and he was called Joseph Henry Allen and he was brought up by his Grandma Fanny and kept the Allen surname - so he is not a boarder but a grandson. Ellen later went on to marry a Coombes and had many children but we believe she was very much in love with my Grandpa Joes father but for some reason, was not allowed to marry him.

My Grandpa Joe was brought up with Carrie Williams in Helston, as siblings, although they weren't blood related he looked upon her as a very loved sister, and my mum looked upon Carrie's children as very loved cousins! I expect they were very poor back then, but i do know there was a lot of love between them.

We were told that Carrie was born in 1900 and her mother died during or shortly after the birth - but as mentioned by others in the thread - if her suspected mother went on to have another child whom was also sent out to another family, maybe this was a myth created to protect the children? Was their mother unwell maybe? I also am researching to find out if there were any Pryor's in Carrie's family tree which may be related to Frances Pryor's family - how did Frances find out about Carrie in the first place?

Half a dozen other researchers on Ancestry have Crisilda linked to Carrie Williams - but how can we know for certain this is Carrie i wonder? Have you had any further luck since you started this thread?

Best wishes from one of your distant relatives (sort of!!!)
Karen