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Re: Where were they in 1891?

PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 4:50 pm
by Templ4r
She is a twin born with William to an Elizabeth or Bessie at islington workhouse.

Re: Where were they in 1891?

PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:39 pm
by SDV
I am still having difficulty in tracking down the child mentioned in the above article, We know the following:

1. At the time of the trial (Oct 1899( she was 18m or 2y, suggesting she was born in the Oct 1897 to Mar 1898 period.

2. Her mother was Alice Daniel/Daniels, an actress living in Upper Holloway.

3. The man mentioned in the articles was “in no way related” and thus not the father. Indeed, in one article the father is described as deceased.

4. There is no evidence of Alice being married, so the child would have been born illegitimate, so presumably with Alice’s surname of Daniel or Daniels, although Alice may have used the father’s surname.

5. I would guess that the child would have been born in Islington, though it is possible that it was born in one of the neighbouring boroughs, such as Pancras or Camden.

6. After the trial both Alice and her daughter was sent to the “Actress Home”. Is this an euphemism for the workhouse. Shouldn’t there be a record of the admission? If so where could this be found? This would at least give me the name of the child.

It is unclear what happened to the child. Certainly there is no mention in later years when Alice reappears as the wife of Philip Cannell, whom she married in 1918. Nor can I find any mention in Alice’s later life, though she didn’t die until the 1950s.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Re: Where were they in 1891?

PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:04 pm
by MoVidger
I recall those newspaper mentions for Alice Daniel. One newspaper used the term "Actress Home"; whilst in other newspapers the actual quote attributed to police court missionary Mr Holmes is "in the Actress's home". Remember that Mr Holmes has obtained a temporary home for Alice Daniel and her child. I would imagine that if it was the workhouse, the court officers would've mentioned it.

In comparison, the Lloyds Weekly Newspaper account (22 Oct 1899) states the "gentleman" with whom Alice lives is unable to care for her daughter. As such, the court judge advises that the child "be taken to the workhouse". So the court wasn't shy about using the word "workhouse". Whether the daughter was taken to the workhouse at the time remains a mystery, as we don't know her name.

A bit of background: The court missionary, Thomas Holmes was well-known in the late 19th-century. Holmes's practical work included preparing uninhabitable rooms for accommodation, providing money for food, finding jobs for offenders, and even burying the dead. He was like a combination social worker and parole officer.

Holmes went on to write several books on crime and penal reform, which were widely read at the time. Following his retirement in 1905, he became the secretary of the Howard Association, then and still the preeminent association for criminal justice reform in England.

Re: Where were they in 1891?

PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:23 am
by SDV
The info on Holmes is very interesting. I wonder if he kept a diary and if that is stored in some archive.

I'm not sure how to proceed with the hunt for a daughter, since no reports even mention a first name and there is no certainty about the surname.

I have done the obvious trawls for Daniel or Daniels over the relevant period (Q3 1897 - Q2 1898), indeed I have extended it a bit either side and nothing jumps out. This is where the GRO's insistence on a surname is extremely irritating, when one just wants to search under the mother's maiden name.

The whereabouts of Alice post the suicide attempt could be relevant. Did she carry on as a dancer cum actress? There is a possible record for her in 1901 (RG13 156 97 38), when she is described as a charwoman (30) boarding with another charwoman, Hettie Taylor, and her brother, Herbert Taylor, a coach painter, at Retcar Street, St Pancras.

I can't find her in the 1911 census. She next appears in the records in January 1918 when she marries a widower named Philip James CANNELL at St Thomas in Camden Town.

The important point being that there was no daughter with her in 1901, always assuming that it is the correct Alice. It would be nice to find a 1911 record, as her daughter might well be with her. Given Alice's delicate state, would the authorities have kept her daughter in care? Was their a relevant children's home in Holloway or Islington? Would one of Mr Holme's charities have taken her in? Was there a school for such children? If the daughter was 18m/2y in Oct 1899, she should have been enrolled in school by the early 1900s.

Suggestions as to a way forward would be welcomed.

Re: Where were they in 1891?

PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:04 pm
by MoVidger
There's an interesting profile with a drawing of Thomas Holmes. If you Google "Thomas Holmes" + "The Quiver" + 1903 + page 1016 you should find it.

A longer TH profile can be found in The Pall Mall Magazine, Volume 29, 1903 - Pages 535-541 (which can also be accessed if you Google it).

If you Google his name and "court missionary" you'll find quite a few profiles and articles on him. Obviously the profiles won't provide you with children's names, but there might be something mentioned that could point you in the right direction. TH was paid by the Church of England Police Court Mission Fund.

It's a shame the 1899 newspapers didn't mention the name of Alice's "gentleman" either. Although it sounds like he didn't want to look after her.

Personally, I think you will struggle to find the child's name and her fate.

Re: Where were they in 1891?

PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 4:46 pm
by SDV
Quick question. Are there records - apart from newspaper reports - of the court cases? And if so, where can they be found?

Re: Where were they in 1891?

PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:03 pm
by MoVidger ... ystem.aspx

Ancestry has England & Wales, Criminal Registers, 1791-1892
FMP has England & Wales, Crime, Prisons & Punishment, 1770-1935
The Proceedings of the Old Bailey, 1674-1913 ... nd-records