Page 1 of 2

Brick Wall Help

PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:16 pm
by Norfolk Nan
I've one of those blended family problems where I can't prove entitlement to husbands and surnames and would be so grateful for any help available...

Eliza Riley (aged 52 in 1871, married, born Highworth, Wiltshire) and her two adult children Catherine Riley (aged 20, born Pimlico) and William Riley (aged 16, born Pimlico) are living in Westminster. Her son calls Peter Riley, a deceased army pension, father on his marriage certificate in 1881. In 1881 Eliza is shown as widowed. Peter Riley is conspicuous by his absence in the 1871 and 1881 census. I can't find a marriage certificate for the couple nor a census for 1861 or earlier for any of the family.

Catherine Riley- now Edwards and the mother of three children - marries Henry Davison in 1878 in Chelsea. Her daughter marries in time and calls a Peter Edwards father. I can't find a record of the Riley-Edwards marriage. Oddly, Catherine, calling herself a 24 year old spinster, declares a Peter Edwards (deceased soldier) her father on the1878 marriage certificate. Catherine is flexible with her age and her place of birth so the census offers no help. I've tried many combinations but have hit the wall. Help?

Re: Brick Wall Help

PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:15 am
by elsabels
I understand St George Hanover Sq was the borth registration for Pimlico
This is the only suitable birth entry I can find for daughter Catherine which suggests her mother was unmarried!

GRO Reference: 1852 J Quarter in SAINT GEORGE HANOVER SQUARE Volume 01A Page 165

Re: Brick Wall Help

PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:28 am
by avaline
If I have the right William Riley in 1891 he is in Chelsea shown as brother in law to a James Booker, who married Caroline Peters in 1887, except I can't figure out how James & Caroline are related...?

Re: Brick Wall Help

PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:36 am
by MayHam
In Chelsea in 1851, there is a Peter "Reley," Chelsea Pensioner, age 40, born Dublin, Ireland.
It appears he was a Drummer with the Scots Guards, having enlisted in London -- Service #731.

Ancestry's London, England Births & Baptisms mentions a William Augustus Riley baptised in 1866 in Hackney to Peter Riley (Police Constable of East London) & Elizabeth Riley.

In Lambeth in the 1871 census, a Peter "Rilley," Tailor, age 61, born Dublin, Ireland is married to Selina "Rilley," age 45, born Middlesex. She *may* be the same Selina Riley who died in Brentford, Middlesex in 1872 age 50.

In Chelsea in 1880, a Peter "Reiley" married Selina Edwards.
In Kensal Green in 1881, William Riley married Louisa Booker.
In Chelsea in 1894, an Eliza Riley died aged 76.

Hope this helps.

Re: Brick Wall Help

PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:49 am
by Norfolk Nan
Hi all, and thank you.

Yes, MayHam and Avaline, William married Louisa Brookes and, despite being widowed, remained with his in-laws for at least the next decade or so. And that is Eliza.

I’ve seen the other suggestions but the details I have are sketchy. As Peter Riley never made an actual appearance on the census with this family I have to rely on the vague details from Williams marriage certificate that says he was an army pensioner. But what else? And he was recorded as deceased by 1881. As for Catherine, in 1871 and 1881 she says her birthplace is Pimlico, but later census she says Turnham Green. They aren’t exactly near each other. I’m keeping an open mind on your suggestion Elsabels.

Experience suggests that ‘facts’ became whatever was convenient at that moment with this family. It makes my life interesting...

Re: Brick Wall Help

PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:03 am
by maxine tallon

I have the same problem finding my grt grandmother on 1861 census and also her marriage in about 1870. It would appear that for the Westminster area the 1861 census is missing! it would also seem that some of the BDM's are not there either. you could try the London Metropolitan Archives the site might tell you if they have the records you are looking for. You have to visit to see the records though.


Re: Brick Wall Help

PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:04 am
by Norfolk Nan
Thanks Maxine - its always useful to be reminded that things do go missing and might have existed once. I really do forget that and draw all sorts of conclusions.

Can I add that I found a possible registration for William, 3rd quarter of 1852 in St Georges in the East, mother's name Riley. This is earlier than the 1856 I expected but William always says Pimlico/Chelsea as a birth place and the extra Riley is another tick. Time will tell...

Re: Brick Wall Help

PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:25 pm
by ciderdrinker
have you seen the 1841 census for Clerkenwell Coppice Row?
Peter Reiley 25 jeweler N
Eliza 24 N

or there is Buckridge St Finsbury
Eliza Riely 25 I
Peter Riely 25 lab I
Henry Jones 30 I
Martin Jones 25 I

There is a possible death for Peter Riley in Sep 1870 St George Hanover Square age 53.

As for Chelsea pensioners there is a Peter Riley in West London of the 3rd foot of Guards discharged 2nd April 1850 who recieves a pension from then.
He is a private in 1841 on the Army census.Service number 731
Sep 1855 he is with the War Office in the London militia from which he was discharged that year.


Re: Brick Wall Help

PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:24 pm
by Norfolk Nan
Hi ciderdrinker, thanks for the interesting info.

I don't know anything about the army during this time but assume to be called an army pensioner there must be some significant service which would put me off the first two ideas but that might be my problem - being biased based on very little evidence. I'll keep them on file.

I like the details of the third chap but my only information about him is that Eliza was a wife on the 1871 census (but he wasn't shown at the property) but a widow in 1881 and his son says the same on his marriage certificate later in 1881.

Thanks again, much appreciated.

Re: Brick Wall Help

PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:31 pm
by elsabels
HO107; Piece: 693; Book: 8; Civil Parish: Bethnal Green; County: Middlesex; Enumeration District: 26; Folio: 16; Page: 25; Line: 13;

Eliza HILEY b 1820 Not in County