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Kellner Lineage

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Kellner Lineage

Postby jshaneman » Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:43 pm

Hello,
My GG G/father was GEORGE FERDINAND KELLNER (1845-1879) born in India.
I am trying to find his father's name. From GF's wedding certificate it says a "George Kellner".
There is a quite famous SIR GEORGE FRANCIS WALSH KELLNER KCMG (1825-1886) and I am wondering
if this could be the same person. Sir George had a second wife Lady Jane (nee) Carter. I need to find the first wife's name and whether they had a child; my GG G/F.
From Gloria Jean Moore's book "An Anglo-Indian Vision" she states:
"At Mainpuri the Rev. Patrick Kellner (uncle of Sir George Welsh Kellner, K.C.M.G., and of Mr. E. W. Kellner, C.I.E., distinguished Anglo-Indians of a past generation) was the Chaplain. He was one day •crossing the sepoy lines, when a havildar ...
Before this Reverend Patrick Kellner was approached by a havildar in
Manipuri .. "you are a padre , I wish you no harm"
Said the havildar urging Kellner to leave.( Among the Kellners who would run
the dining cars on the East Indian Railway later),
Were distinguished Anglo Indians Sir George Kellner, KCMG and E Kellner CIE."
My GG G/F founded the company that ran the dining car service on the East Indian Railway. Hence there is a connection, but I need the proof as to whether Sir George is the father or not.
Any help would be much appreciated.
Cheers
John
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Re: Kellner Lineage

Postby ColinB » Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:08 pm

Hi,
I'm not knowledgeable in this area , but I think I've found George Francis Walsh Kellner's first marriage on familysearch :
parents:
M.F.D. Kellner
spouse:
Anne Caroline Gardener


groom's name:
George Francis Welch Kellner
groom's birth date:
1825
groom's age:
21
bride's name:
Anne Caroline Gardener
marriage date:
24 Apr 1846
marriage place:
Fort William, Bengal, India
groom's father's name:
M.F.D. Kellner
indexing project (batch) number:
M75005-2
system origin:
India-EASy
source film number:
498984

There are also 3 baptisms for children of the marriage but none of these is for a George Ferdinand.

It's possible that other members may be able to help further with this.

Colin
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Re: Kellner Lineage

Postby Sylcec » Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:09 pm

It might be helpful to know the date and place of your ancestor George Ferdinand Kellner's marriage. If the information he provided was accurate, then he was not the only person of the same name.
A George Ferdinand Kellner married Emma Clark 26 January 1856 in Calcutta - so clearly he wasn't born in 1845!! :) This couple had several children.

Your first stop on-line sources for colonial India are:
Families in British India Society http://www.fibis.org
Familysearch http://www.familysearch.org - but I suggest that you run specific searches in the India Office records (not a complete set) by using the "browse by location" facility, clicking on Asia and Middle East, and then, in turn, searching within the India baptisms, marriages, burials datasets.
India Office Family History Search http://indiafamily.bl.uk/UI/
If you are based in England, then a visit to the Asia, Pacific and Africa Collection room at the British Library is most likely your best way forward.

I note that Sir George Kellner died in 1886 - have you thought to look for a probated will and check to see if he provided for any of George Ferdinand's children in it?

Researching records in British & French colonial India is a challenging and fascinating area of research. None of the record sets are a complete record of all vital events. Also, probably to a far greater proportion than happened in the UK generally, people fabricated family details to cover their birth origins which were either not known, or were known to be illegitimate, frequently with an Indian or mixed race mother. Often the incontrovertible proof is not there, but the 'facts' are arrived at on the basis of probabilities.

Good hunting!
Sylvia
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Re: Kellner Lineage

Postby Kellner » Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:16 pm

I am the great-grand-daughter of Sir George Kellner. His second wife, Jane Carter, was my great-grand-mother. Sir George was born in Calcutta, as were both his parents (Francis Daniel Kellner and Anne Henrietta Welsh) and his grandmother, Jessy Welsh. His grandfather, Paul Kellner, was probably born in Germany because he served in the Wurtemberg Regiment in India.

One of Sir George's brothers, Patrick, was rector of St. Luke's in Abbottabad (the town in Pakistan where Osama Ben Laden was killed). Two of his sisters died in the Indian mutiny in Delhi. Sir George's first wife, Anne Caroline, was the daughter of Henry Boileau Gardener. She died in Calcutta in 1872, whereupon Sir George moved with his son and unmarried daughters to London, where he remarried (in 1882) had 3 more children and then died (1886).

George was NOT related to the G.F.Kellner family. Kellner is a common German name (also common in Hungary and among Hungarian and other Eastern European Jews).

Sir George had 12 children, not all of whom survived childhood.

I am pretty sure that Anne Caroline and/or Jessy were mixed race. Anna Maria, Paul Kellner's wife, was probably Portuguese-Indian.

I hope this helps.

Anthea Tillyer
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Re: Kellner Lineage

Postby sinikka100 » Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:35 pm

George Ferdinand Kellner 8.3.1816-7.6.1879 was born in Bohemia and died in Stuttgart.
He was the founder of the refresment company G.F.Kellner & co in India.
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Re: Kellner Lineage

Postby CarolineSK » Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:25 pm

I was intrigued that a great grandaughter (rather than GG etc) of Sir George was alive and kicking in New York. I am the great great grandaughter of Edwin Welsh (Sir George's brother). Sir George was not an uncle to Patrick as stated in one of the posts - the chaplain with the East India Company and buried in Peshwar - he was the brother of Sir George Francis and Edwin.

Regards George Ferdinand KELLNER - as stated he married Emma Clark (Irish descent) in 1856. I am unsure that there is any link to Cornelius Frederick KELLNER born 1798 (a son of Paul Kellner and brother of Francis Daniel????).

Cornelius Frederick died in 1832. His first wife married 1815 was Mary Anne Harvey b.1796 d.1826 (son born 1919). His second wife Caroline Rodriques marrried 1830.She died 1835. 3 Children Eliza Egletine b 1825, ??

Regards G F Kellner & Sons (dining cars railways etc) having no links to Sir George kellner family - I have seen papers which state Sir George & Edwin Welsh Kellner sold their stock in that company in the early 1930s - that said I never heard my father talk about GFKellner & Sons trading company.

Do any of you have any info re the Kellners and the de Riaz tea plantation in Ramgarh?

Caroline SK
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Re: Kellner Lineage

Postby woolybully » Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:05 pm

Hi

I have found the online database of Families In British India Society to be very helpful (google FIBIS for website).

A quick search person search using "Kellner" brings up hits from 26 different sources incl. The Times of India and The East India Register.


Happy hunting
Woolybully
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Re: Kellner Lineage

Postby Kellner » Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:09 am

CarolineSK is "intrigued" that Sir George Kellner has a great-grand-daughter "alive and kicking". Actually, Sir George has EIGHT great-grand-children, all ver much alive, in their fifties and sixties.

Anthea
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Re: Kellner Lineage

Postby Lulworth » Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:33 pm

Hi We are researching Edwin Welsh Kellner as I am his great great granddaughter. from our records we can see he was born on 2 November 1835, he married June Letitia Rubie who was born on 13.2.1845 and their son Edwin Rubie Kellner was born in Calcutta on 16.12.63 and he married Mabel Gertrude de Riaz. My mother was June Rubie Kellner. Any information gratefully received.
Many thanks
Diane
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