Moderator Control Panel ]

Help! Trying to find Herbert Ermine Goodman and his parents

A problem shared is a problem halved. Post your brick walls here and see whether you can offer advice to others

Help! Trying to find Herbert Ermine Goodman and his parents

Postby Luke » Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:13 pm

Hello! I'm currently trying to find out about my Great-Great Grandfather, Herbert Ermine Goodman, and hopefully be able to trace his parents and so forth. I've got his birth and marriage certificates and I have found him in the 1891 and 1901 census. This is all the information I have on him:

From the birth certificate:
D.O.B.: 22/05/1887
Place of Birth: Plaistow, Essex

Father: William Thomas Goodman (Builder's Labourer)
Mother: Emily Annie Turrell

From the marriage certificate:
Spouse: Annie Gertrude Perle
Married: 25/12/1915
Occupation at Marriage: Shop Assistant

1891 census:
Father: Will M Goodman, D.O.B.: abt. 1862, Occupation: Fishmonger
Mother: Emily Goodman, D.O.B.: abt. 1858
Siblings: Florence and Annie

1901 census:
Address: 58 Stratford Road, West Ham
Occupation: Servant (butcher's assistant)

As far as I'm aware, he lived in the East End of London all his life. I have found a death record that might be his, but I'm not sure (Stepney, 1950). His wife (Gertrude) died in 1974, and her death certificate says she was a widow, so he had died by then. My Grandmother (his Grand-daughter) is the only relative I have who remembers him, but that was when she was young. She remembers him being a quiet and lovely man, and she's positive he was Jewish.

I'd like to be able to find out more about his parents, but they're eluding me. There's a bit of a puzzle on Herbert Goodman's birth certificate regarding his mother. It has her as:

Emily Annie Goodman late George formerly Turrell

My Mother thinks that maybe the "late George" means she was previously married, but we're unsure. I haven't been able to find any record to say either way. The 1891 census has Herbert's father's name written in a strange way. It's written as "Will M Goodman". The "M" looks small, as if it isn't part of the name.

Would anyone who has information about these Goodmans (Goodmen?) be able to help me? Thank you ever so much in advance.
Luke
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:49 am

Re: Help! Trying to find Herbert Ermine Goodman and his par

Postby 2012girl » Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:57 pm

Hi Luke,

The 'late George' would indicate she had been married before, so Turrell would be her maiden name. Dealing with the marriages first...

An Emily Annie TURRELL married William James GEORGE, Sep 1881, Bromley (2a 572)

There is then a marriage for an Emily Annie GEORGE to a William GOODMAN, Sep 1886, West Ham (4a 30)

Presumably her first husband had died, there is a death for a William James George, Dec 1883, Islington, aged 25 (1b 158) which is a possibility.

If finances allow then the marriage certificates would, of course, give father's names which should help you get further back still.

Jill
2012girl
 
Posts: 299
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 6:32 pm

Re: Help! Trying to find Herbert Ermine Goodman and his par

Postby JoTolhurst » Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:04 pm

The Will M is simply the shorten William.

I found the same marriage for William Goodman and Emily George as Jill. It would make Florence, William's step daughter.

Jo
JoTolhurst
 
Posts: 247
Joined: Sat May 21, 2011 9:46 pm

Re: Help! Trying to find Herbert Ermine Goodman and his par

Postby JoTolhurst » Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:26 pm

Looks like Emily married the lodger:
1881 5, Arthur Road, Beckenham
TURRELL, Herbert Head Married 42 1839 Gun Smith Bethnal Green, Middlesex
TURRELL, Ann Wife Married 45 1836 Laundress Stratford, Essex
TURRELL, Emily Daughter Single 19 1862 Laundress Swardston, Essex
TURRELL, Laura Daughter Single 17 1864 Laundress Enfield, Middlesex
TURRELL, Annie Daughter Single 11 1870 Laundress Bethnal Green, Middlesex
TURRELL, Florence Daughter Single 6 1875 Scholar Enfield, Middlesex
TURRELL, Alice Daughter Single 14 1867 Scholar Beckenham, Kent
GEORGE, William J Lodger Single 22 1859 Carman Stratford, Essex
JoTolhurst
 
Posts: 247
Joined: Sat May 21, 2011 9:46 pm

Re: Help! Trying to find Herbert Ermine Goodman and his par

Postby JoTolhurst » Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:02 pm

1901 28, Grafton Road South, West Ham
GOODMAN, Mary A Head Widow 73 1828 Laundress Lynn, Norfolk
GOODMAN, William Son Widower 43 1858 Bricklayers Labourer Silvertown, Essex
GOODMAN, William Grand Son Single 18 1883 Railway Clerk Plaistow, Essex
GOODMAN, Annie Grand Daughter Single 12 1889 Plaistow, Essex

This ties in with William senior's birthplace and Annie's birth from the 1891 census.

1911 same address
DONALD, Mary Ann Mother Widow 82 1829 Norfolk Lynn
GOODMAN, William Son Widower 53 1858 Builders Labourer Essex Silvertown
GOODMAN, William George Grandson Single 28 1883 Railway Clerk Essex Plaistow
GRIN, Linda Granddaughter 11 1900 School Essex Plaistow

1891 22, Pinnocks Place, West Ham, Plaistow
DONALD, Mary A Head Widow 62 1829 Laundress Kings Lynn, Norfolk
HEITZMANN, Eliza Daughter Married 26 1865 Laundress Plaistow, Essex
DONALD, Louisa Daughter Single 14 1877 School Girl Plaistow, Essex
GOODMAN, William Grandson Single 8 1883 School Boy Plaistow, Essex
HEITZMANN, Alfred Grandson Single 1 1890 Plaistow, Essex
JoTolhurst
 
Posts: 247
Joined: Sat May 21, 2011 9:46 pm

Re: Help! Trying to find Herbert Ermine Goodman and his par

Postby JoTolhurst » Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:56 pm

this may explain the donald/goodman name changes:

1881 4, Pinnock Place, West Ham
DONNELL, Thomas Head Married 55 1826 Dock Labourer Fulham, Middlesex
DONNELL, Mary A Wife Married 50 1831
GOODMAN (DONNELL), John T Step Son Single 24 1857 Dock Labourer Magdalene, Norfolk
GOODMAN (DONNELL), Sarah A Step Daughter Single 13 1868 West Ham, Essex
DONNELL, Alice Daughter Single 7 1874 West Ham, Essex
DONNELL, Louisa Daughter Single 4 1877 West Ham, Essex
GARLAND, Alfred Boarder Single 21 1860 Dock Labourer West Ham, Essex
JoTolhurst
 
Posts: 247
Joined: Sat May 21, 2011 9:46 pm

Re: Help! Trying to find Herbert Ermine Goodman and his par

Postby JoTolhurst » Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:22 pm

1871 Pennock's Place, West Ham
GOODMAN, ?? Head widow 41 1830 Norfolk
GOODMAN, John Son 14 1857 worker in jute factory Norfolk (crossed out) Essex Canning Town
GOODMAN, William Son 13 1858 worker in jute factory Essex Canning Town
GOODMAN, Mary Ann Daughter 10 1861 Essex Canning Town
GOODMAN, Eliza Daughter 6 1865 Essex Plaistow
GOODMAN, Susan Daughter 5 1866 Essex
GOODMAN, Sarah Ann Daughter 3 1868 Essex Plaistow
DOWELL, Thomas Boarder 48 1823 garden labourer Essex Plaistow
GEORGE, Thomas Visitor 4 1867 Essex Plaistow
JoTolhurst
 
Posts: 247
Joined: Sat May 21, 2011 9:46 pm

Re: Help! Trying to find Herbert Ermine Goodman and his par

Postby JoTolhurst » Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:36 pm

1861 8, Pickins Yard, Battersea
GOODMAN, John T Head Married 45 1816 Railway Labourer Lincolnshire
GOODMAN, Mary A Wife Married 32 1829 Norfolk
GOODMAN, John Thomas Son 5 1856 North Woolwich
GOODMAN, William Son 3 1858 Bow
GOODMAN, Mary A Daughter 1 1860 Bow
SMITH, John Boarder Unmarried 22 1839 Railway Labourer Brighton, Lincolnshire
BURROWS, William Lodger Unmarried 23 1838 Railway Labourer Lincolnshire
WABY, John Lodger Unmarried 20 1841 Railway Labourer Lincolnshire

Different birth places for John junior, William and Mary junior but looks like right family.
JoTolhurst
 
Posts: 247
Joined: Sat May 21, 2011 9:46 pm

Re: Help! Trying to find Herbert Ermine Goodman and his par

Postby 2012girl » Fri Jul 06, 2012 5:38 pm

If Herbert's father was already a widower by 1901 then this is probably his mother's death:

Emily Annie Goodman, Mar 1900, W. Ham, aged 39 (4a 175)
Last edited by 2012girl on Sun Jul 08, 2012 3:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2012girl
 
Posts: 299
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 6:32 pm

Re: Help! Trying to find Herbert Ermine Goodman and his par

Postby Luke » Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:39 am

Wow, this is amazing, thank you both! I don't know how I haven't been able to find all this!

I've been looking around at the Turrell line this morning, found some interesting information.

Emily Turrell's (mother of Herbert Goodman) parents are a Herbert Armine Turrell and Ann Little. Herbert Turrell's parents then are Armine Turrell and Anne Parker. The Armine name explains Herbert's unusual middle name (Ermine) I guess! I had a look at the meaning of Armine and it's supposedly a German name. I'll have to have a proper look for Armine Turrell's birth place (he was born around 1811 and had died by 1851).

I'll have a good proper look at the Goodman line next.

Once again, thank you! This is brilliant!
Luke
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:49 am

Next

Return to General research queries


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests