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Emilia Fox (7 September)

Discuss this year's series, featuring celebrities including June Brown, JK Rowling, Sebastian Coe and Alan Carr

Emilia Fox (7 September)

Postby Matt Elton » Tue Sep 06, 2011 3:48 pm

The new series continues this Wednesday, 7 September, as Silent Witness star Emilia Fox discovers more about an acting dynasty. Don't forget to check back here after the episode has aired to share your thoughts – we'd love to hear from you!

All the best,

Matt
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Re: Emilia Fox (7 September)

Postby emben » Tue Sep 06, 2011 9:39 pm

Can't wait, wish they would send me off on a journey like that, It would be amazing.

Em x
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Re: Emilia Fox (7 September)

Postby Wahian » Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:36 am

Samson Fox and the Royal College of Music mentioned; Prince Albert was involved with the development of South Kensington as a cultural and arts centre of London, and has it's origins when the Great Exhibition of London ended, and Prince Albert and his associates, notably Sir Henry Cole, had a lot of money left over wondering what to do with it? The two men responsible for South Ken's re-development were the Prince's friends, Sir Henry Cole and in particular, Sir George Christopher Trout Bartley, MP, Sir Henry's son-in-law who'd married Mary Charlotte Cole; daughter of Sir Henry and Marian Cole.
Sir George's son, George Henry Cole Bartley became a curate( later vicar) that married Kate Sheryer in Cranleigh ,Surrey in 1893 and it's the Sheryer family of Downton, Wilts then later Cobham, Surrey I've studied for many years now.

Samson Fox must surely have had dealings with Sir Henry Cole and Sir George C T Bartley, MP who was one of the prime movers in the development of South Kensington and likely why the RCM would be built there eventually as part of his ideas for the area. The programme seemed to give Prince Albert all the credit, while it was he that was financing it with the Great Exhibition money they had acquired and elsewhere. Is it no wonder museums are on either side of Exhibition Rd? Samson and his £45,000 appears to be a late comer into the re-development going on. I wonder how it came about and who designed and built the building? Sir George also founded the Penny Bank to help the less well off in London to save money. Paul
Last edited by Wahian on Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Emilia Fox (7 September)

Postby Jeeps » Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:40 am

Another excellent prog! Loved Gt. Aunt Mary! What a character, we should all have a Gt.Aunt Mary in the family.

I found Sampson's story completely compelling. What a tale of rags to riches. I was surprised he was news to Emilia as normally such an illustrious ancestor would be mentioned by family members but I suppose Willie "running off with an American tart" meant there was no one who could tell his children about their grandfather and so the story was lost.

I would like to know what Willie got up to and I would like to have heard more about Samson's origins. I would like to have heard about Emilia's mother's family too and whether they were also an acting dynasty. I am always left wanting to know more!
~~Jeeps~~
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Re: Emilia Fox (7 September)

Postby Wahian » Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:02 pm

And Emilia's dear aunt Pam who answered the door to her in Cornwall has sadly since passed away.

Samson's US connections building freight cars for US railroads in later years with his connection to American businessman, financier, and philanthropist Diamond Jim Brady didn't quite make it into the programme. When Emilia misreads the amount of Willie's will/estate value as £889 and 17 pence instead of 17 shillings as it shows, it looks like his story would be one of riches to rags--- or was his wealth transferred to someone else? During the 1920s and up to at least 1939, he'd been living in Paris. I wonder how much of his wealth was in France as WW2 approached ? I think at least some of it was in New York deposited with the Guaranty Trust Company on Madison Ave. In early August 1929, Willie left Paris for New York City around 3 month's prior to the Wall St Crash. Could that have depleted his wealth to some extent besides living off it? Willie also claimed to have a relation living in Paris named Spencer Eddy.
Might this be the same Spencer Eddy who was a former American Diplomat who held property in France and had returned to live there temporarily from 1921 through the 1930s. Willie Fox died in Paris aged 93, c.1963.
Last edited by Wahian on Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:23 am, edited 12 times in total.
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Re: Emilia Fox (7 September)

Postby Wahian » Thu Sep 08, 2011 7:50 pm

In the 1891 Census shown by the lady at the V&A Performance Archives, the sister's mum Elizabeth's marital status has been amended to M/married. But, all 3 don't appear in the 1881 census as Hanbury. The book shown at the same time shows Elizabeth's maiden name as Davis. In 1881, the family with her husband appear under their real name of Alcock, with Lily shown with her middle name only, Florence, born 1873 as Lillian Florence Alcock, and sister born Hilda Louise Alcock.
On 15 July, 1867, Elizabeth Davis had married Matthew Henry Alcock at St James, Clerkenwell. He was born 1842 in Guernsey. After 1881, he seems to disappear??? His father was James Alcock; professor of music, and Mary Sophia Alcock witnessed their marriage.
Last edited by Wahian on Fri Sep 09, 2011 5:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Emilia Fox (7 September)

Postby paulberyl » Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:28 am

I just wanted to say how much I am enjoying this series of WDYTYA? Having watched every series, in my view, the current series, to date, is the best yet. But for me the greatest star that has appeared in all the episodes has been great-aunt Mary. The look of absolute disgust on her face when she referred to the “American tart” was priceless. We had to rewind the programme as we were laughing so much we missed what was being said.

So sad that great-aunt Pam passed away before the programme was aired but pleased that life continues with the birth of Rose.

Paul
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Re: Emilia Fox (7 September)

Postby Lorna1320 » Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:48 pm

This was an excellent episode. She was so excited about finding out about her Great-Grandfather - and it captivated me entirely. I loved the fact that her ancestor had so much history attached to him and that she was able to trace back quick quickly his history. Another great episode which I just found fascinating. Well done BBC.

Lorna
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Re: Emilia Fox (7 September)

Postby Lorna1320 » Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:50 pm

[quote="paulberyl"]
So sad that great-aunt Pam passed away before the programme was aired but pleased that life continues with the birth of Rose.

Oh I missed this bit - what a shame, she was a lovely lady. But to reach 104 - whow what a woman! Lovely that Emilia had a little girl called Rose.

Lorna1320
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Re: Emilia Fox (7 September)

Postby Wahian » Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:14 am

During the 1920s, Willie's circle of friends/associates included well to do Americans living in Paris. I think it fair to assume from from this American group of friends he had, the new love of his life appeared he'd then left his wife Hilda and family for, and she was likely well do do as well.

But in Cornwall, Pam's comment that Willie loved the theatre and liked the actresses might well be telling; for in 1925, Willie had married a former US actress and widow of wealthy copper financier, Jesse Lewisohn, and also a friend of his father's business associate, Diamond Jim Brady, who was Edna McCauley, born New York 29 March, 1880. But, on June 18 1929, his wife passed away in Paris, and she was interred at the family vault at New Cemetery of St Germain-En-Laye, possibly to be moved later. His trip 7th August 1929 to New York possibly was in connection with the loss of his wife, named as Edna Van Ranst McCauley Fox. They'd lived on the Rue D'Artois, not far from the Champs Elysee.

In the summer of 1939, Willie returned again to New York on the Mauritania with his friends, businessman Mr Henry K S Williams and wife Mildred Anna Williams whose legacies of various trusts and art collection can be found today in New York and San Francisco.
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