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where r u james w martin in 1861?

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where r u james w martin in 1861?

Postby nmartin » Mon May 30, 2011 8:31 pm

James William Martin is my 3x great grandfather. He was born in Durham in 1840 (his father was a chorister at the cathedral). I can't find him between 1851(when he is at home with his dad) and 1871.
By 1871 he is married to a Mary Jane (born c.1842 in Wool, Dorset) and has 5 sons (Henry George b. c. 1861 in Plymouth, Edwin Charles b. 1862 in Greece(!), William James b.1867 in Norfolk, Walter b. 1868 in Carlisle, and Alfred Stevens b. 1871 in Durham).
Given his new son is called Alfred STEVENS and an Emma STEVENS (sister-in-law) is resident on the 1871 census I have always assumed Mary Jane is a STEVENS too. However, there is no sign of a wedding, or the 1861 census or a birth for Henry (my 2x great grand father). Any ideas? ALso why might he have been in so many places in the 10 yrs 1861-871? Is it something to do with seafaring? By 1871 he is a solicitor's clerk.
ANy ideas greatfully considered!
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Re: where r u james w martin in 1861?

Postby bandit » Mon May 30, 2011 10:50 pm

Hi
I have been looking at this for a while this evening and whilst I have found the right family there are a few differences I have found.. this is the 1871 census

11 Eden Rown Street Cumberland

Martin James William 36 Head Solicitor Clerk -, Durham
Martin Mary Jane 29 Wife -, Dorset
Martin Henry 10 Son Scholar Plymouth, -
Martin Edwin Charles 9 Son Scholar Tonian, Gloucestershire
Martin William James 4 Son Scholar Hands, Norfolk
Martin Valper 3 Son Carlisle, Cumberland
Martin Alfred Sterens 7 M Son Carlisle, Cumberland
Stevens Emma 19 Sister In Law Scholar Plymouth, -
Culbert Sarah 14 Servant Domestic Servant Kirklinton, Cumberland

first Edward is down as being born in Gloucester
Alfreds second name is down as Strerens although it has to be said the orginal writing is the same as for Emma so it could well be Stevens

Then I had a look at James birth and Mary's and yes you were right his wife was a Stevens

Birth
Name: STEVENS, Mary Jane
Registration District: Weymouth
County: Dorset
Year of Registration: 1841
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
Mother's Maiden Name: Not available before 1911 Q3
Volume No: 8
Page No: 138

Birth

Name: MARTIN, James William
Registration District: Durham Central
County: Durham
Year of Registration: 1840
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Mother's Maiden Name: Not available before 1911 Q3
Volume No: 24
Page No: 92

However this pair married late into their children which could explain surnames

Marriage
Name: MARTIN, James
Registration District: Newton Abbot
County: Devon
Year of Registration: 1878
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
Spouse's name: Maryn Ann Stevens
Volume No: 5B
Page No: 267

I will see if I can find some more births; Although I had trouble with Alfreds
perhaps someone else can see a way clear for him?
regards
Bandit

ps
this is a possible the next was 1864 and the previous was for another area in Devon

Name: STEVENS, Henry John
Registration District: Plymouth
County: Devon
Year of Registration: 1860
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
Mother's Maiden Name: Not available before 1911 Q3
Volume No: 5B
Page No: 247


Name: MARTIN, William James
Registration District: Walsingham
County: Norfolk
Year of Registration: 1867
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
Mother's Maiden Name: Not available before 1911 Q3
Volume No: 4B
Page No: 297
bandit
 
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Re: where r u james w martin in 1861?

Postby bandit » Mon May 30, 2011 11:13 pm

Hi again

just to be sure I checked out the 1881 census

1881 4 the Avenue Durham
MARTIN, James Wm Head Married M 40 1841 Accountant Durham
Durham
MARTIN, Mary Jane Wife Married F 39 1842 Woolbridge
Dorset
MARTIN, Edwin C Son Single M 19 1862 Accountants Clerk (B S)
Ionian Islands
Greece
MARTIN, William J Son Single M 14 1867 Scholar Wells
Norfolk
MARTIN, Walter Son Single M 13 1868 Scholar Carlisle
Cumberland
MARTIN, Alfred S Son Single M 10 1871 Scholar Carlisle
Cumberland
MARTIN, Claude Son Single M 7 1874 Scholar Carlisle
Cumberland
MARTIN, Sydney Son Single M 1 1880 Durham

Edwin is down as being born in Greece

Bandit
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Re: where r u james w martin in 1861?

Postby JoTolhurst » Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:51 am

This could be Henry George, registered as George Henry?

Name: MARTIN, George Henry
Registration District: Plymouth
County: Devon
Year of Registration: 1861
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
Volume No: 5B
Page No: 237

Alfred's which confirms his middle name:
Name: MARTIN, Alfred Stevens
Registration District: Carlisle
County: Cumberland
Year of Registration: 1871
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
Volume No: 10B
Page No: 487

Edwin Charles Martin in the 1891 census is down as being born in Ithaca, a small ionian island given back to Greece in 1864. Could James have been some sort of accountant/clerk in the administration, army or civil service?

I would get William james's birth certificate to confirm Mary Jane's surname. It would also tell you James' occupation at that time.
Jo
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Re: where r u james w martin in 1861?

Postby JoTolhurst » Mon Jul 11, 2011 2:30 pm

new scenario:
searching Mary Jane Stevens on ancestry led to a family tree with Mary Jane marrying Henry Thomas who then died in the Ionian islands. Henry George Martin is noted as their son.

Checking this out:
Mary Jane Stevens married Henry Thomas 1859 at Stoke Damerel Devon
Name: STEVENS, Mary Jane
Registration District: Stoke Damerel
County: Devon
Year of Registration: 1859
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Volume No: 5B
Page No: 539

Their son Henry George was born:
Name: THOMAS, Henry George
Registration District: Plymouth
County: Devon
Year of Registration: 1860
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Volume No: 5B
Page No: 243

They went to the Ionian islands, where Edwin Charles was born:
Name: THOMAS, Edwin Charles
Consulate: Ithaca
Country: Greece
Year: 1818-1864
Volume: 3
Page: 22
Record source: GRO Ionian Islands Military Registration Births (1818-1864)

Henry Thomas died. leaving Mary Jane widowed with 2 small children:
Name: THOMAS, Henry
Consulate: Corfu
Country: Greece
Year: 1818-1864
Volume: 8
Page: 85
Record source: GRO Ionian Islands Military Registration Death (1818 to 1864)

Still can't find James William Martin's marriage to Mary Jane or where he is in 1861. Maybe he was working in the islands and came back with Mary Jane and the 2 boys who then took the surname Martin.
Jo
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Re: where r u james w martin in 1861?

Postby JoTolhurst » Mon Jul 11, 2011 2:40 pm

Found in the National Archives catalogue:

ROYAL ARTILLERY: REGISTERS OF MARRIAGES AND BAPTISMS
WO 69/553 R.A. Brigade 3.
Entry 40: Henry THOMAS, of 3 Brigade Royal Artillery, and Mary STEVENS married on 2 July 1859 at Stoke Dameral, Stoke, Devon. Note: Soldier died Corfu 1863.

ROYAL ARTILLERY: REGISTERS OF MARRIAGES AND BAPTISMS
WO 69/553 R.A. Brigade 3.
Entry 162: Henry George, a child of Henry THOMAS of 3 Brigade Royal Artillery and Mary, was baptised on 17 June 1860 at Plymouth. Note: Born 4 June 1860.
Entry 163: Edwin Charles, a child of Henry THOMAS of 3 Brigade Royal Artillery and Mary, was baptised on 26 March 1862 at Ithaca. Note: Born 8 January 1862.

Jo
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Re: where r u james w martin in 1861?

Postby JackieC » Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:22 am

I am sending this message to you on behalf of a descendant of Henry Thomas, (the first husband of Mary Jane Stevens). She reports "I was told by father that Mary Jane Stevens and James William Martin met at a Sunday School outing and got married secretly on 2nd February 1865 at the Church of St Paul Garrison, Valletta, Malta. They then each went back to their respective homes that night. James was still at college training to be an accountant. When his mother found out she never ever spoke to either of them again. She would pass them in her horse drawn buggy and ignore her son, his wife and all their children when they lived in County Durham."
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Re: where r u james w martin in 1861?

Postby meGrumps » Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:22 pm

I had heard the identical story from my uncle Bertram. However, I think you have the generation wrong. This story refers to Henry George Martin, son of Mary Jane Stevens by her 1st marriage to Henry Thomas, who stole away on a Sunday school outing to marry Eleanor Cleminson in 1879 in Durham. I am a grandson of this clandestine marriage. See public "Ian's Tree" on Ancestry.
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