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James O'Neil

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James O'Neil

Postby jamesagodley » Sat May 21, 2011 9:28 am

Hi,I wonder if anybody could help me with tracing one of my ancestors? I am looking for James O'Neil who lived in Glasgow around 1871,who long with Catherine O'Neil had a son James.The son went on to marry Esther McMahon in 1902.James junior's 1901 census return show's he born in Glasgow,but I can't find his birth certificate.James Senior was possibly born in Ireland,County Clare.I am not sure where Catherine was born but her maiden name was McKinlay.Just to add to the mystery James Junior's death certificate has his mother down as Jane O'Neil nee McIlvanney!!James Junior's parents (james and Catherine)are both shown as deceased on his 1902 wedding certificate.
Jim
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Re: James O'Neil

Postby ColinB » Mon May 23, 2011 12:26 pm

As there is more than one family O'neil with James , Catherine and James it's a bit difficult
to identify them. Please could you be a bit more specific with details of where you have found them
on the Census , with birth year and place. Also , did they stay in Scotland or did James and Esther
marry in England ? You say that you can't find James jun.'s birth record and that his death record
gives an unexpected mother's name. This might mean that James sen. had been married before
and Catherine was not James jun.'s mother ????

Colin
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Re: James O'Neil

Postby jamesagodley » Mon May 23, 2011 7:30 pm

Hi Colin,
I have been getting my information off the Scotlands people site.The information I have so far is:-
1901 census James 27yrs,Esther 25yrs,kids William 6yrs and John 4yrs.All born in Lanackshire Glasgow.
They are living at 236 Mathieson Street Hutchesontown.
The 1911 census has him as 40yrs and Esther 39yrs?
They did'nt get married till 1902.
1902 28th April Marriage certificate shows his parents as James O'Neil and Catherine O'Neil nee McKinlay, both are shown as deceased.(St.Francis Church,Hutchestown)
His spouse Esther McMahon's parents are William (deceased)and Jane McMahon nee McIlvanney.
1918 November 30th Death certificate for James O'Neil (Jnr) has him as 47yrs which ties in with the 1911 census.His father is James O'Neil and his mum is down as Jane O'Neil nee McIlvanney (which is the same as Jane McMahon's maiden name?? You could be right that James' mum could be from an earlier marriage.
I'm not sure if I have provided enough information,James senior may not have come from Ireland,we have only hearsay in the family.
Thanks Jim
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Re: James O'Neil

Postby ColinB » Tue May 24, 2011 9:19 am

Hello again

I noticed on the Ancestry version of the 1901 Scotland Census that James ( junior ) is
said to be born about 1884. This is probably a transcription error , but have you been
able to look at the Image on Scotlands People to check what it says ?

I'm going round in circles with James and Catherine . Do you have his occupation from his
son's Marriage Certificate ?

Ignore that for the moment - just had a find on familysearch .

I found these two Marriages which appear to be for the same people . Typed just as they
are given :

James O'NIEL and Catherine MCALVENEY 16 Feb 1863 Dumbarton,Dunbarton,Scotland

AND

James O'NEILL and Catherine MCILVENIE 14 jUL 1864 Dumbarton etc. as before
This OUGHT to make them easier to find , but I've had a quick look and can't so far .


Over to you

Colin
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Re: James O'Neil

Postby jamesagodley » Tue May 24, 2011 11:36 am

Hi Colin,
So far I've viewed the marriage certificate and death certificates for James (jnr) and Esther.There is no occupation shown for James Senior on the marriage certificate.
James (jnr) is shown being 27yrs on the 1901 census and 40yrs on the 1911 census.The 1911 age seems to be right as he is shown to be 47yrs on the death certificate,making him born around 1871.

I've seen the two Dumbarton entries before but not opened them as they have Catherine down as McIlvanney,instead of McKinlay. I will have a look tonight and report back.
Thanks for your time.
Jim
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Re: James O'Neil

Postby ColinB » Tue May 24, 2011 11:41 am

I think I've got my McKinleys, McIlvanies etc confused , Sorry ! However confusion over
name spellings is probably part of the problem here. I've now tried searching just for
O'Neil in Hutchesontown but still found nothing conclusive. As I said in my previous post
an occupation for James senior might help if you have it - which I've just seen you don't.

I'll keep trying

Colin
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Re: James O'Neil

Postby jamesagodley » Tue May 24, 2011 7:13 pm

Hi Colin,

The Dumbarton O'Neils are not my ancestors,but worth a try with the surnames of James juniors mother being both McKinlay and McIlvanney.
My search seems to have hit a wall with questions:-
Where is James juniors birth certificate.
Why is his mum down as Catherine McKinlay on the wedding certificate and
Jane McIlvanney on his death certificate. (which show's him as being widower of Esther McMahon)
I've opened quite a few certifcates now on Scotlands people in my search for James senior and feel a need to hold back until I can get any positive leads.
Jim
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Re: James O'Neil

Postby jamesagodley » Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:13 pm

Hi, I have managed to find my great grandfather,James O'Neil, on four census return's now.
The 1871 census has his family living at 99 Gallowgate Glasgow and he is 3yrs old.
The 1891 census has him on his own at 44 Gallowgate St. and 23yrs old.
The 1901 census with his own family at 236 Mathieson St. and 27yrs old.
The 1911 census again with his own family at 14 Rose St. and 40yrs.
His marriage certificate (to Esther McMahon)in 1902 has him down as 28yrs old.
His death certificate in 1918 show's him as 47yrs old.
I am having trouble finding his birth certificate which would be 1867/8, he was born in Lanarkshire Glasgow.
His fathers name was James O'Neil (as well) and he was a bookseller,born in Lanarkshire.
His mothers name was Catherine (nee McKinlay) and she was born in Lanarkshire.
Other siblings on the 1871 census are Jane 8yrs, Daniel 6yrs and Catherine 7mnths.
I am also trying to find anything about his mother and father and theirs (who I think came from Ireland,maybe County Clare)
Hope you guys can help.
Jim (O'Neil)
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Re: James O'Neil

Postby JuneBB » Sun Jul 03, 2011 1:05 pm

Hi Jim,
I'm trying hard not to state the obvious here, but...... the informant on James death certificate obviously just had the wrong grandmother. My own 2 x great grandfather did exactly that on his father's death certificate.
As to births, there are 20 approx James O'Neils born in Glasgow in the years 1867 - 1871.
If you are sure about the census info, which parish were the family in closest to his birth.
You've been using the Scotlandspeople site, so you should be aware that SR birth records include the place and date of marriage of the parents.
7 month old sibling Catherine from 1871 census would be a start , there are 3 in Glasgow (Bridgeton, Tradeston & Rutherglen) in 1870.
If you have traced his parents through the census data, you should be able to find their death certificates and thus both of their parents names , including maiden name of each mother.
Hope you find what you are looking for , it is there just persevere.
Cheers,

June
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Re: James O'Neil

Postby jamesagodley » Fri Jul 08, 2011 1:09 pm

Hi June,
Thanks for taking an interest,I think your right about about the Informant information as his mother in law was called Jane!
I have had a struggle to work out which James O'Neil was mine as there are so many.I did'nt know a lot about my father's side of the family when I started,only that there is a Irish connection on the O'Neil side, somewhere.
I have managed to connect the James O'Neil (1871 census) with addresses mainly, on the 1891 census and his future wife's address.I have looked for all his and his siblings birth certificates but can't find any of them.I am beginning to wonder if they did'nt have the children registered.I have checked out the ones you showed for young Catherine but nothing showed.They lived around the Hutchesontown Lanakshire area of Glasgow and maybe Govan for awhile.
My main task's for now are to find their birth certificates and find out more about James senior and Catherine (nee McKinlay) his wife.

Thanks Jim
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