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Marriage of Margaret Agnes Hyslop to Walter Millar

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Marriage of Margaret Agnes Hyslop to Walter Millar

Postby Roger Gosling » Thu May 05, 2011 3:06 pm

My Grandmother, Margaret Agnes Daniel married my Grandfather Charles Ernest Daniel 18.4.1913,
St Pancras London. MargaretA.D. was nee Hyslop born Pietermarizburg S.A. 1883. She was married previously to a Walter Millar of which I can find no record whatever, either of the marriage or divorce. On the second marriage certificate, she is given as the divorced wife of Walter Millar. Family rumours are varied, but the two main ones are 1) She went off to Australia to marry Millar, against her fathers
wishes, later divorced 2)She married a diplomat in S.A. (Millar), met her second husband to be CED
and they eloped, later to be married in St Pancras ???

Margaret Agnes came to England from Durban S.A. in 1903 and returned in 1904, with a female companion on both occasions, still as Miss Hyslop; so she must have been married in between 1904
and 1913. I have trawled English Australian and South African, Marriages and divorces without any luck: can anyone help me. Particularly if any progeny ensued from the first marriage ?

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Re: Marriage of Margaret Agnes Hyslop to Walter Millar

Postby Past Times » Fri May 06, 2011 8:06 pm

Have you tried looking for a marriage in Scotland for them? Millar is a spelling varient which is peculiar to Scotland, so it is possible Walter Millar came from there?

You can check the registers for Scotland here and you can purchase credits to view the results:

www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/

It's a slender possibility, but one worth checking, even if in order to discount it from the list of possibles ;)
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Re: Marriage of Margaret Agnes Hyslop to Walter Millar

Postby meekhcs » Sat May 07, 2011 5:29 pm

Have looked on scotlands people as i had an odd credit left. I could not find a marriage between a Walter Millar and Margaret Hyslop.
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Re: Marriage of Margaret Agnes Hyslop to Walter Millar

Postby Roger Gosling » Sat May 07, 2011 6:12 pm

Thanks for your efforts/advice, much appreciated.
As Margaret Agnes went back to South Africa in 1904, suspect she married either there or in Australia ?
I don't know whether it helps, but her father was knighted in 1909: Sir Thomas Hyslop, after being the Natal representative and signature of the post Boer War South Africa agreement in London. Did this make her the Honourable Margaret Agnes Hyslop ?
I'm still perplexed as to how she met my grandfather. Capt Charles Ernest Daniel served in the Loyal North Lancashire Regt which spent some time in South Africa during the Boer War: in 1909, he would only have been 21 and I cannot find records of how long the regt stayed post the Boer War ?

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Re: Marriage of Margaret Agnes Hyslop to Walter Millar

Postby Sylcec » Sun May 08, 2011 6:26 am

You didn't say which Battalion of the North Lancs Regt your grandfather was with. These are the deployments for the 1st and 2nd Battalions:
1st Battalion
1898 Cape Colony
1899.10 South Africa
1902 England: Devonport
1904 Ireland: Kinsale
1906 Curragh
1908 Tidworth
1910 Aldershot 2 Bde
1914.08 France and Flanders 1 Div
1919 Malta

2nd Battalion
1897 Aldershot
1899 Malta
1902 Gibraltar
1904 South Africa
1907 Mauritius
1910 India: Poona/Bangalore
1914.11 German East Africa 27 Ind Bde
Ref: http://www.britisharmedforces.org/i_regiments/loyal_index.htm
This rather suggests that your grandparents may have met in India - unless Captain Daniel was home on leave.

I have been trying unsuccessfully to find when Margaret returned to England. Was she present for her father's investiture? Would she have been travelling as a MILLAR or a HYSLOP?

Have you tried searching newspapers in South Africa and England for a mention of her during 1904-1913?
Good hunting! Sylvia
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Re: Marriage of Margaret Agnes Hyslop to Walter Millar

Postby Roger Gosling » Sun May 08, 2011 9:42 am

I have Charles Ernest Daniel as being in the 4th Battalion Loyal North Lancashire Regt, which became the 1/4th (info from The Museum of the Queens Lancashire Regt), at the beginning of the 1st World War. I know that he left Haileybury School at the age of 16, in 1904; so 9 years later he married: but cannot find any information about what he was doing in the missing years.

Haileybury was well known as a training ground for the army, but they cannot help me at this stage.

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Re: Marriage of Margaret Agnes Hyslop to Walter Millar

Postby Roger Gosling » Sun May 08, 2011 9:57 am

Whoops ! I missed out some information. Margaret Agnes returned from England as Miss Hyslop in 1904
and I cannot find any other record of her returning to England again. MAH did not travel with Sir Thomas and mother Lady Margaret to London for the investiture, or on the same boat at least: was she already there ? I suspect that in 1909, she was Mrs Millar.
I have no family record or rumour of CED ever having been in India: who knows, but I think that something would have come out, particularly as his son in law, my father, spent 4 years in the sub continent during WW2.
I have done a Google South Africa and Australia search using MA Hyslop and MA Millar, to no avail.
Can you advise on the best way to search Newspaper archives in England/South Africa and dare I say Australia for the relevant information ?

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Re: Marriage of Margaret Agnes Hyslop to Walter Millar

Postby Roger Gosling » Sun May 08, 2011 10:18 am

Sylvia,
An interesting one here and close to home for you: my four times great grandfather , two times (?) great grandfather to Charles Ernest Daniel, was Samuel Terry 'The Botany Bay Rothschild'. Capt CE Daniel's mother was Charlotte Henrietta Daniel, nee Terry.
Samuel Terry's life in Australia is very well documented, from arrival at Botany Bay in 1800 to his death in 1838, leaving in excess of £1Million ; owning more mortgages than the Bank of NSW and properties all over the area. He was described as a publican, merchant, brewer, but above all in land-land in Sydney and the bush as pioneer in the Illawara, Bathhurst and Yass. ST achieved all of this despite the political and social conflict that existed between non convicts and ex convicts ! He is described as the richest man ever in Australia, exceeding the wealth, in real terms, of Murdoch (is he still Australian ?) Packer etc.....fascinating stuff: Needless to say, none of the money got as far as me !

Roger
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Re: Marriage of Margaret Agnes Hyslop to Walter Millar

Postby Sylcec » Mon May 09, 2011 2:23 am

Roger
I think you need to research your grandfather's military history a bit more - the 4th Battalion was a Territorial Army Bn - but I'm having trouble finding out when it was formed, or in fact any details about it prior to 1914. You may already know this. However, if he belonged to the 4th Bn before WWI, then he is unlikely to have been overseas, which means that he must have met Margaret Agnes in England.

Haileybury was at one time the training college for the East India Company!

Have you thought to check Irish records for the missing marriage to Walter Millar? Other alternatives are the Channel Islands, Isle of Man, Calais, Boulogne etc.
Sylvia
PS: I was born on the Leics/Derbyshire border, grew up in outer NW London and migrataed to Aus in 1973 - so tend to know more about English research than Australian!
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Re: Marriage of Margaret Agnes Hyslop to Walter Millar

Postby Roger Gosling » Thu May 12, 2011 3:30 pm

Hi Sylvia,
thank you again for your comments. C.E.Daniel, my grandfather, as previously, left Haileybury in 1904 and I can find no record of him between then and his marriage in 1913. I have had correspondence with the Regimental Museum in Preston who have no pre-war records for him. Interestingly, he does not appear in the 1911 census, which leads me to think that he was abroad somewhere. I have asked Haileybury if they have any record of his 'employment', 'service', subsequent to him leaving school; awaiting their reply.
I think that Irish records for that period are a bit hit and miss, but will try them all the same. This 'impasse' is all the more galling, as we have sailed through all other branches of the family without any real problem, right back to 1066 !

Regards

Roger
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