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LILY ELIZABETH MABEL SMITH nee VICARS

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LILY ELIZABETH MABEL SMITH nee VICARS

Postby Manners » Sun Sep 05, 2010 12:42 pm

Hi

I am hoping that someone can help point me in the right direction to try and trace information about my maternal grandmother, Lily Smith (nee Vicars). I cannot seem to find her in the 1901 census although there is a Lily Vicars of the right age in the census described as a boarder living with an Albert Lawrence in St Albans but I have no way of knowing if this is the right person. There is a George James Vicars married to an Elizabeth A in the 1891 and 1901 censuses but they have a daughter called Mabel born c1893 so I do not think this is my family. I cannot find a birth registration for Lily either. On to what I do know -

Lily Elizabeth Mabel Vicars was born in about 1893 (a guestimate of her dob from her marriage certificate).

She married George Smith on 25th December 1914. Both their ages are recorded as 21 yrs. George is described as a bachelor and a Sailor. Lily is a Spinster and no profession is given. George's father is William Smith, a plumber. Lily's father is George Vicars, a chimney sweep. he is described as being deceased. At the time of their marriage, they are both resident at Randall Street (I think No 4). The witnesses to the marriage are a William Davies and a Frederick Farmer. The marriage was solemnised after banns at the Parsh Church in Battersea.

I have discovered that Lily and George had two daughters, Doris (1921 -1999) and Irene (1930 - 1962). It must have been soon after Irene's birth that Lily left George and the children (or George left her and took the children) because my mother (Pamela Lily Redwood) was born in 1934 to a different father (Mark George Redwood). Lily had another daughter a couple of years later (Betty) but I am not sure of the birth date. My mother was aware that her mother had been married before (and also her father) but she always assumed that her parents were married. It was not until obtaining mum's birth certificate, and subsequently Lily's death certificate, that it transpires that Lily and Mark never married and this is borne out by the fact that I have been unable to find a marriage certificate for them.

Lily died in 1941 aged 47 years from a stroke.

I am completely stumped as to how to find out any more information regarding Lily and would appreciate all the help anyone can provide.

Sorry about this being so long but thought you ought to have all the info available.

Thanks

Alison
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Re: LILY ELIZABETH MABEL SMITH nee VICARS

Postby Emmeline » Sun Sep 05, 2010 4:51 pm

Hi Alison,
I've had a good look and, like you, have drawn a complete blank although there are several possibilities but nothing concrete. Did your mother have any idea in which part of the country Lily was born? Or if she had any siblings?
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Re: LILY ELIZABETH MABEL SMITH nee VICARS

Postby paulberyl » Sun Sep 05, 2010 9:43 pm

Probably of no use whatsoever but on the 1911 census I found:

George Edward Vicars aged 60 a chimney sweep in Brighton, Sussex together with his wife Amelia. The census return shows that they have been married 19 years and have had two children, one of which was still living.

However despite searching under every variation I can think of I have not been able to trace them on any census prior to 1911, neither have I been able to trace a marriage certificate. Immediate thought is that they changed their name for some reason or another, but having said this have not even been able to trace a likely George and Amelia under any surname.

As I said of no use whatsoever!

Paul
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Re: LILY ELIZABETH MABEL SMITH nee VICARS

Postby Manners » Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:29 pm

Hi

Thanks for your efforts. I will actually look further into the George Vicars in Brighton as that is where my mother was born. I am not aware of either Lily or Mark having any previous connection to Brighton (as Mark was born in London and Lily was married in London also) and so assumed that they went there because no-one would have known them or that they were both previously married (and never divorced - or at least one of them never divorced). They did return to London at the outbreak of WWII (or soon thereafter) as the family were living with at least one of Mark's sisters when Lily died. Mum was there when it happened and remembers it even though she would only have been 6/7 at the time.

Unfortunately, mum doesn't know anything about Lily other than a vague knowledge that she had previously been married. She took the knowledge that her parents never married in her stride but has not taken the knowledge that her mother must have left young children behind very well at all. Mum had also got quite upset about being reminded of how young her mum was when she died.

I will talk to mum and see if she remembers anything about any people who might have been relatives of Lily or close friends and also if she remembers any places her mother talked about.

Thanks for your help anyway. It has given me some things to think about.

Alison
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Re: LILY ELIZABETH MABEL SMITH nee VICARS

Postby callbrian » Mon Sep 06, 2010 7:36 am

Hi Alison
Is it not possible that you actually did find your Lily in 1901. The Mabel you found could be she, as you go on to state her full name as Lily Elizabeth Mabel, perhaps she preferred Lily to Mabel.
Good Luck
Brian
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Re: LILY ELIZABETH MABEL SMITH nee VICARS

Postby TheJackson6 » Wed Sep 08, 2010 8:26 pm

I am researching the Vicars family of London some of whom moved to the Brighton area. I cannot say currently whether your Vicars are related to this family.

I think you should follow up the St Alban's link. There is a Lily Vickers living in an institution in Wandsworth in the 1911 census. She was born about 1893 in St Alban's. Being in Wandsworth would be consistent with marrying in Battersea.

There is a birth record in Apr-Jun 1892 in St Alban's for Lily Vickers.
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Re: LILY ELIZABETH MABEL SMITH nee VICARS

Postby Manners » Thu Sep 09, 2010 8:12 pm

Thanks - I will do that.

I have just had a conversation with mum and, as I suspected, she really knows nothing about her mum. As she says, Lily died when she was only 6 years old so she will not really remember anything anyway and Lily wasn't talked about much after her death. Having said that, mum did say one thing that might help - she thinks Lily had a sister and she thinks her name might have been Phyllis. All very tenuous, I know, but at this stage beggars cannot be choosers!!.

Alison
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Re: LILY ELIZABETH MABEL SMITH nee VICARS

Postby luke treadwell » Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:20 pm

Hi Alison,

Lily Elizabeth Mabel Smith nee Vicars is my great grandmother on my mothers side.
Lily and George had four daughters and one son, two of the girls were twins and one of those "Irene" was my grandmother.

I don't know too much about that side of my family as my grandmother died when my mother was around six or seven. Two of her sisters are still alive and living in London.

From what i understand Lily left George for another man. George brought the kids up in the same house in Brighton and also helped bring up my mum and her siblings after my gran died. I have one photo of George but unfortunately none of Lily. I have no idea what the circumstances were for Lily and George so i can't comment on why Lily would have left.

I am also investigating my family history and like you have drawn a complete blank on Lily.

I hope this message finds you well and i look forward to hearing from you soon.

Luke Treadwell
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Re: LILY ELIZABETH MABEL SMITH nee VICARS

Postby ldale727@gmail.com » Sat Feb 22, 2020 8:48 am

Hi Alison

Hope you're well, my name is Lucy and I wondered if you might be able to help me find out more about my family. I am the granddaughter of Joan Elizabeth Forde (née Smith). She is the youngest daughter of Lily Elizabeth Mabel Smith (née Vicars) from her marriage to George Smith, her elder sisters being Doris, Ivy, Irene and Peg and her brother Ronnie.

We have always been curious about my nan's family and the circumstances in which she was brought up. As she was very young when her mother left the family home she has never known much about her and for years we thought her name was Lillian May Vicars, which meant finding out about her was much more difficult.

I believe it was one of her sisters who told my nan she wasn't her 'real' sister and that her real sisters were called Pamela and Betty and that they lived in Wales. When my nan asked her dad George what she had meant, George was very angry and the conversation was never discussed again, naturally making us even more curious! When I googled Lily's name I came across this request from you also looking for information on Lily. My family and I were so shocked to find the request and would really love to find out as much about Lily and the extended family as possible. I know my nan is very keen to find out more about Pamela and Betty in particular.

Thanks in advance and look forward to hearing from you,

Lucy
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