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The Kings (Liverpool) Regiment.

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The Kings (Liverpool) Regiment.

Postby Brummie on Exmoor » Sat Jun 05, 2010 4:39 pm

One of my ancestors, Elvino CLOWES b Birmingham in cDecember 1885, joined the Liverpool Regiment in London on 23 April 1900, as a Boy Soldier. He did not cover himself with glory! After 2 years service at home, he was posted overseas and in May 1903 was sentenced to 56 days Hard Labour for using threatening language to a superior officer and (I think) striking him. Then, about 3 months after his release and return to duties, he died of Pneumonia, aged 17. I have obtained this information from his Military Record on Ancestry, which is fantastic. However, the record is one of the 'burned records', and is only partially readable. I have 2 questions.

:?: 1a. Firstly, the bit of the record saying where he was posted overseas is very indistinct. He was posted to the 1st Battalion on 23 12 1902, and joined them on 10 3 1903 (the period between is presumably the travel time) His posting was to East or Eastern and then it looks like Indies. However, my research suggests that the 1st Battalion of the Liverpool Regiment was at that point stationed in the Eastern Transvaal, having fought in the Boer War. But the word after East does NOT look like Transvaal or Cape.

:?: 1b. The place he died is also unreadable, except that it starts with an M. I wondered if it was Military Hospital. However, he appears on the 1901-1905 Return of Army Deaths on familyrelatives.com, and the P/B is Merktila which is in Burma. The 2nd Battalion of the Liverpools fought in the Burmese War in the 1880s and there were still British troops stationed there in the 1900s. But I didn't think the Liverpools were still there then.

So, I'd be very grateful for any help on this. Was he likely to be in Burma, or did he die in Transvaal?

:?: 2. Finally, he did his attestation in London on 23 April 1900 but joined on 25 April 1900, and the record says he joined in Dublin. Was this actually Dublin, or is it the name of a barracks or base? Or, did he literally travel to Dublin over the 2 days 23-25 April and join the unit in Ireland? Again, it doesn't look as though the Liverpools were in Ireland in 1900, but perhaps they were.
Many thanks

Jane
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Re: The Kings (Liverpool) Regiment.

Postby callbrian » Sun Jun 06, 2010 8:11 am

Hi
I'm not sure if this is any help only to confirm what you know:
http://www.britishmedals.us/kevin/adi.html
The index covers both soldiers, soldiers wives and children.
The format is Surname, Christian name,
Location of Registration of Death, Year of Death and Page of Entry.
Clowes Elvino 17 Melktila 1903 367
Apparently death certificates are obtainable for military deaths abroad out of conflict.
Brian
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Re: The Kings (Liverpool) Regiment.

Postby Sylcec » Sun Jun 06, 2010 8:55 am

Hi, your
:?: 1a: The 1st Bn of the King's Regt(Liverpool) was posted as follows:
1899 South Africa
1902 Burma: Rangoon
1905 India: Nasirabad
So - Elvino Clowes was sent to the East Indies. India proper, Burma, the Malay archipelago and other points east were all categorised as "East Indies", as opposed to the "West Indies" which are the Caribbean islands and nearby mainland.
:?: 1b: Burma confirmed above.
I'm afraid that my source for the above is very old indeed - I still tend to rely on Tod Mills' website regiments.org which no longer exists and can only be reached through the archived websites on http://www.archive.org . The last valid update to regiments.org was 16 January 2008.

The climate in India and Burma was very hard on British people and death was a frequent occurrence, often from sudden fevers, cholera, typhoid, etc - a man could be fit and well in the morning and dead by nightfall. Chronic infectious illnesses such as TB were also endemic.

I hadn't heard of Meiktila before - looked it up on Google maps - seems a pretty remote spot.

Afraid I have no idea about his attestation.
Sylvia
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Re: The Kings (Liverpool) Regiment.

Postby Brummie on Exmoor » Mon Jun 07, 2010 3:42 pm

Hi Brian and Sylvia, I am very grateful to both of you for your very interesting and helpful replies.

I was really interested, Brian, in the notion that it is possible to obtain Certificates, and I shall try to do that. And the site you suggest is a useful one to know for the future.

Sylvia, your archive site sounds a gem. The fact that the Liverpools WERE in Burma in 1903 when Elvino went abroad, and were NOT in the Transvaal is the crucial bit of info for me. I had looked EVERYWHERE and not found that. All the histories that I looked at talked extensively about their service in the 2nd Boer War (Ladysmith esp.) and then left it hanging until the outbreak of WW1, without a hint of them going out east. I have Elvino's attestation - I was really fortunate as it is in the Ancestry WW1 archive (the 'Burnt' records, which is why it is so difficult to make out in part).

A point of info re Meiktila or Merktila for your info, Sylvia: it appears again re WW2. I think there was a major battle or seige there involving the Gurkhas and the Japanese.

Thank you again very much both, for your kind help. :D

Very best wishes

Jane
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Re: The Kings (Liverpool) Regiment.

Postby Brummie on Exmoor » Fri Jun 11, 2010 3:29 pm

To Sylvia and to Brian,

Thank you both very much again. I have now had time to take a good look at the websites you recommended and they are really useful - beyond just this enquiry. And Sylvia, your suggested site also answers why Elvino went to Dublin. The Home Battalion in 1900 was stationed in Ireland. He would have been in Enniskillen and then in Limerick, before being posted out to Burma.

Best wishes

Jane :D
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Re: The Kings (Liverpool) Regiment.

Postby bodger » Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:22 am

My grandfather was in 1st KLR around this time.
From his Army smallbook we get the following dates.
Enlisted 17 May 1902 at Warrington.
Burma (Rangoon) 15/11/1903 - 25/09/1905.
India (Nasirabad) 22/10/1905 - 10/01/1909
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Re: The Kings (Liverpool) Regiment.

Postby Brummie on Exmoor » Sun Mar 12, 2017 12:23 pm

He may well have served with Elvino!

Jane
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Re: The Kings (Liverpool) Regiment.

Postby Brummie on Exmoor » Sun Mar 12, 2017 12:31 pm

Oops, no he couldn't have, as Elvino died on 5th November. Your Grandfather arrived just afterwards.

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