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Can anyone help date this photo please?

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Can anyone help date this photo please?

Postby ksouthall » Tue Jun 01, 2010 3:41 am

Hello,
I have managed to reduce the file size of the attached photo and was wondering if anyone could help date it please?
I think it is could be a christening photo.
Thanks,
Katherine
P.S. Now I know how to do this, I may upload a few more photos!
Attachments
Family Group.jpg
Family Group.jpg (55.64 KiB) Viewed 5236 times
Last edited by ksouthall on Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Can anyone help date this photo please?

Postby callbrian » Tue Jun 01, 2010 12:31 pm

Hi Katherine,
I saw the name W. Blackwell, Tavistock on the bottom of the print. I have searched my collection of books on Tavistock, with no luck.
I tried Historical Directories for photographers, 1878-79,1889,1893,1902,1914,1918 & 1919. Also no mention of a W. Blackwell. I'm no expert on these sort of photo's, I would have thought possibly c1900.
If there are no other replies, I will be in Tavistock sometime this week, I will try the library or the museum there to see if I can find Mr. Blackwell.
Regards
Brian
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Re: Can anyone help date this photo please?

Postby ksouthall » Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:27 pm

Hello Brian,

Thanks for replying. The information I have just found on a likely William Blackwell is as follows:-

1871 Census - Living at 77 West Street, Tavistock:
William Blackwell. Age 28. Born Duloe, Cornwall. Oven and stove maker.
Son of Francis and Mary Blackwell.
Siblings include a Francis Blackwell. Grandmother - Mary Stephens.

1881 Census - Living at 21 West Street, Tavistock:
Wiliam Blackwell. Age 28. Born Herod's Foot (sic), Cornwall - Sewing Machine Agent & Photographer.
Hannah Blackwell. Wife of the above. Age 31. Born Tavistock.
Three sons - William, Francis and John. Age 8, 4 and 1. All born in Tavistock.

1891 Census - Living at 21 West Street, Tavistock:-
Henry R Harding. Aged 39. Born Whitchurch, Devon. Tailor.
Hannah H Harding. Wife of the above. Age 41. Born Tavistock.
Children of Henry and Hannah, plus stepsons of Henry: Francis G Blackwell and John H Blackwell. Aged 14 and 11. Both born in Tavistock.

Herodsfoot is 2.26 miles from Duloe. They are both about 4 miles from Liskeard.

William Blackwell married a Hannah Minhinnick in Stoke Damerel in 1872.

There is a death registration for a William Blackwell in Tavistock in 1884, aged 33.

Hannah Harris R Blackwell married a Henry Richard Harding in Plympton St Mary in 1885.

It looks like William Blackwell did not trade for long as a photographer in Tavistock, unless his son took over the business from him around 1900. Is it possible that the photo was taken some time around 1880 or do the clothes date from nearer to 1900?

Another alternative is that a later photo was stuck onto an old photo backing and that the photo does not relate to William Blackwell at all.

I will check the censuses again to see if I can find any other William Blackwells in Tavistock.

Thanks again Brian,

Katherine
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Re: Can anyone help date this photo please?

Postby ksouthall » Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:55 pm

I am checking out William Blackwell's children and have found the following:-

William Henry R Blackwell. Birth registered in Tavistock in Q4 of 1872. Death registered in Tavistock in Q4 of 1890.

Francis George Blackwell. Birth registered in Tavistock in Q1 of 1877.

John Herbert Blackwell. Birth registered in Tavistock in Q3 of 1879.

By 1901, Henry Richard Harding and Hannah had moved to Calstock in Cornwall with their younger children. Henry had become a fruit grower. There is no sign of Francis or John Blackwell.
ksouthall
 
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Re: Can anyone help date this photo please?

Postby ksouthall » Tue Jun 01, 2010 2:04 pm

callbrian wrote:Hi Katherine,
I saw the name W. Blackwell, Tavistock on the bottom of the print. I have searched my collection of books on Tavistock, with no luck.
I tried Historical Directories for photographers, 1878-79,1889,1893,1902,1914,1918 & 1919. Also no mention of a W. Blackwell. I'm no expert on these sort of photo's, I would have thought possibly c1900.
If there are no other replies, I will be in Tavistock sometime this week, I will try the library or the museum there to see if I can find Mr. Blackwell.
Regards
Brian


Thanks again for this Brian. Having now checked out the censuses for William Blackwell in Tavistock, it looks like he may have traded some time between 1879 and 1884. If the photo was actually taken by him, that would be quite a narrow date range, although it is possible someone continued trading using his name after he died, or used the backing card some time after his death.

Another family member seemed to think the photo could date from about 1906 but I don't know how they came to that conclusion.

If you do get chance to find out more when you visit Tavistock, it would be much appreciated. It looks like William Blackwell spent most of his time in Tavistock in West Street. I don't know if that helps at all.

Thanks again,
Katherine
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Location: Sussex

Re: Can anyone help date this photo please?

Postby callbrian » Tue Jun 01, 2010 3:05 pm

Hi Katherine,
you have been busy.
I checked out 21 West Street,now Mayflower Gallery.
It must have been the father W. Blackwell as I found a death for William jnr (William Henry R) Tavistock 1890. Obviously why he wasn't on the 1891 census.
So the date of c1880-1884, may be correct for that photograph, I can't see someone else using the card, although anything is possible.
Brian
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Re: Can anyone help date this photo please?

Postby callbrian » Tue Jun 01, 2010 3:19 pm

Hi
I found Wm. Blackwell, Sewing machine agent / dealer in White's directory 1878-79 for Devon, as before, 21 West St. Tavistock.
Brian
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Re: Can anyone help date this photo please?

Postby ksouthall » Tue Jun 01, 2010 7:11 pm

callbrian wrote:Hi
I found Wm. Blackwell, Sewing machine agent / dealer in White's directory 1878-79 for Devon, as before, 21 West St. Tavistock.
Brian


Hello Brian,

Thanks very much for checking this out. It's interesting that the photograph may have been that early. I have no idea yet who it could be of. The problem with dating photos of family groups is that some children may not have been in the photo for various reasons, plus it could be a nanny with the children, rather than a member of the family.

I did wonder if the black card and gilt edging was significant. I wonder if it could even be William Blackwell's wife and children? I guess there is no guarantee that photos in an album are all family photos, as some could be of friends or neighbours. I haven't thought about it being Hannah Blackwell before, but her children would have been about the right ages in about 1880.

I might check to see if there is any connection between the Blackwells and my family. You never know - there was a lot of intermarrying between families at that time.

Thank again,
Katherine
Last edited by ksouthall on Mon Aug 17, 2015 9:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
ksouthall
 
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Location: Sussex

Re: Can anyone help date this photo please?

Postby callbrian » Wed Jun 02, 2010 3:25 pm

Hi Katherine,
If you do think they maybe the Blackwells in the photo and in some way relatives, don't forget she remarried and became Mrs Harding, that maybe the connection.
Also they were living in the same house in West St.
Brian
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Re: Can anyone help date this photo please?

Postby callbrian » Wed Jun 02, 2010 3:35 pm

Hi again.
I have copied the 1911 census entry for the Hardings just in case they become part of your tree (long shot).
HARDING, Henry Head Married M 59 1852 Farmer Horrabridge
HARDING, Hannah Wife Married 25 years F 60 1851 Tavistock
HARDING, Henry Son Single M 27 1884 Fruit Grower Tavistock
HARDING, Charles Son Single M 24 1887 Farmers Son Working On Farm Tavistock
HARDING, Mildred Daughter Single F 21 1890 Farmers Daughter Working On Farm Tavistock
Address:
Bittams Farm Gunnislake.
No sign of the Blackwell boys.
Strange thing about this is: my wife used to visit Bittams farm in the late 1940's, her father was the station master at nearby Luckett station and my wife thinks, that the then owners of the farm were her father's cousins. We now live only 2 or 3 miles from Gunnislake.
Brian
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