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Lace makers in Nottingham / Calais

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Re: Lace makers in Nottingham / Calais

Postby rosiewileman » Tue Nov 10, 2015 8:43 pm

Hi there or Bonjour!
I didn't make it clear that I have a great deal of information about the lacemakers and may be able to help with individual queries. If you send me the names you are interested in I will have a go.
Here goes with a few replies:

for deeksnelson, sorry I don't have anything on Charles Hazard and Betsy, but a William Hazard was in Calais as early as 1837, when he was probably only 23, sharing his expertise on setting up machinery. At least one of his children was born there, in about 1846. I have the 1851 census info for him and his wife Maria Morley and 7 children, including a Charles, aged 5. This makes me wonder if he was a brother of your Charles, who might have been in another town close by.

for Patty123; I can let you have a copy of "Prucella"Miller's birth entry; she was born in St Pierre calais on 8th December 1841, when Thomas was 27 and his wife Elisabeth Simms (Sams at Elisa's birth in 1844) was 26. Thomas signed.

for csdk; I can get you a copy of Ann Mountney's birth in 1836; sorry, her father was one of the few who could not sign. I know most of the family sailed on the Harpley in 1848, but i have the Calais census record for 1841, if you want it. The ASLC will fill you in on the background; there books will be accessible in a local library, surely? I have the 1831 census for Charles Donisthorpe and Mary Smith, parents of Mary Ann who also sailed on the Harpley; ther birth of Marie Anne Donisthorpe was registered in Calais on 5th may 1824; Charles did sign the document.

for lesleyheming; sorry, Lesley, I did not get your query until recently, not having checked backed. Yes, Lille was a very important centre for our lace makers. Unfortunately the departement of the Nord, which is that for Lille, have not put their census records online, nor do they plan to, but i should be able to track down your gt gt grandmother's birth and possibly other births in the family. There were Austins in Calais, a whole dynasty of them and my talk in Calais was based partly on them, which went down very well as there were several descendants in the audience, but they were the Barwell, Leicestershire bunch, not the Long Eaton set. i imagine John Austin was based in Lille as well as Long Eaton, until the 1848 revolution upset everything.

for crissy2006; I didn't have the Thomas Wells/Sarah Cresswell family going to Australia - perhaps you could fill me in on that - i like to keep tabs on "my" lacemakers, having collected them. James was born 31st Oct 1843 in the rue Lafayette and i have the family in the 1841 census, if you would like copies.

Happy to help anyone with a name or a specific enquiry,
Rosie Wileman
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Re: Lace makers in Nottingham / Calais

Postby Patty123 » Wed Nov 11, 2015 3:11 am

rosiewileman, that would be fantastic! I got lost on the website so I didn't find anything.
I would love a copy of Priscilla/Prucella's entry - also Elisa's, as I did not know she existed. I have found an Eliza Miller d. 1848, Nottingham, aged 4, so that could be her (not in 1851 census with her parents.) Could you check to see if there is another child, maybe in 1846=/-? Thomas and Elizabeth seem to have popped out a baby every couple of years! Elizabeth's surname is Simms (Sims on another child's birth cert.)
What is the best way for you to get me the info? Can we PM on here? I'm not very familiar with how this site works.

Another question re lace workers - were Nottingham workers over in France in 1861 for any special reason? I'm missing Thomas, Priscilla and husband, and P's sister and husband - all lace workers - in the 1861 census, and wondered if they could be back in France (- of course, they could be anywhere!)
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Re: Lace makers in Nottingham / Calais

Postby rosiewileman » Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:52 am

Hi there,
That was quick!
I will access the departement of Pas de Calais's site and download the two records, which I can then post for you. they won't let me give you my e-mail address, it seems.
If you want to have a shot at it yourself, it's complicated but not impossible. I will check my notes for the 1861 census, which may not be fully "shoeboxed" ie on cards yet, but I don't think I have them.
Best wishes, Rosie
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Re: Lace makers in Nottingham / Calais

Postby rosiewileman » Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:31 pm

Patty123,
i have Prucella's birth entry and will try to attach two versions. It would not let me download and save Elisa's birth entry (July 1844) but if you put this into your search engine it might get you there!
http://archivesenligne.pasdecalais.fr/a ... e93e325741
have a go!
Unable to attach copies so I will go back and get you that reference too. Here is the French version.
"L'An mil huit cent quarante un, le onze du mois de Décembre
à quatre heures après midi, Pardevant nous Louis Joseph Fougère, adjoint
remplissant par délagation du Maire les fonctions d'officier de l'état civil
de la commune de St Pierre les Calais, canton de Calais, département
du Pas-de Calais, est comparu le sieur Thomas Miller, agé de
vingt-sept ans, ouvrier en tulle, demeurant à St Pierre les Calais,
lequel nous a présenté un enfant du sexe feminin, né en sa demeure
sise rue de la Tannerie Section C, numero deux cent vingt ter
le huit de ce mois, à midi, de lui déclarant et de Elisabeth
Simms, agée de vingt-six ans, son épouse, et auquel il a
déclaré voulir donner le prénom de Prucella, les dites déclarations
en présentation faites en présence des sieurs William Bradbury,
agé de vingt-sept ans, boucher et Zébédé Graffin, agé de
trente six ans, ouvrier en tulle, tout deux demeurant à St Pierre les
Calais et ont les père et témoins signé avec nous le présent acte,
après qu'il leur en a été fait lecture."
This is a standard entry, made by the deputy mayor, giving the name of the parents, the address where the baby was born and details of the witnesses. Father and witnesses sign. In Elisa's entry Thomas does not sign, but i think it was a mistake as there is clearly a space for his signature. I suspect he signed the other copy.
Let me know if you want anything translating!
Best wishes, Rosie
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Re: Lace makers in Nottingham / Calais

Postby rosiewileman » Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:33 pm

Ah, the reference didn't work so here it is again:
http://archivesenligne.pasdecalais.fr/a ... e93e325741
Good luck, Rosie
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Re: Lace makers in Nottingham / Calais

Postby rosiewileman » Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:43 pm

Patty 123
this is the info for Prucella:
http://archivesenligne.pasdecalais.fr/a ... f4c1762612
Rosie
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Re: Lace makers in Nottingham / Calais

Postby Patty123 » Thu Nov 12, 2015 2:28 am

Rosie, that is awesome! I would never have found that myself. And it does confirm Elizabeth's surname for me. If you don't mind, could you translate Elisa's record? No rush, but my French doesn't stretch to their cursive. I'm excited!!!
Thanks so much,
Pat
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Re: Lace makers in Nottingham / Calais

Postby rosiewileman » Thu Nov 12, 2015 4:16 pm

Hi there,
Elisa's birth entry is almost the same as Prucella's, standard form, except minor changes:
the date is 19 of the month of July 1844
Thomas is now 32, still ouvrier en tulle = lace worker
different address, now rue de Charost, Section G, number 597 bis(= our a or b)
she was born 17th (they had 3 days to declare)
mother is Elizabeth Sams, 35, his wife
witnesses this time are Jacques Félix Lemaire, 39 and Louis Auguste François Bremont, 32, both ouvrier en tulle

now I read the bottom bit more carefully, which says he didn't sign because he said he couldn't write or sign - we know he manged pretty well last time, though (missed the a in Thomas, but otherwise it looks pretty good. Unfortunately, he was never witness to any other events, so i can't check. I wonder what happened to put him off?
Any other queries, just ask and I will answer if I can. Glad to be of help.
Best wishes, Rosie
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Re: Lace makers in Nottingham / Calais

Postby Patty123 » Fri Nov 13, 2015 6:01 pm

Thank you SO much, Rosie. This is great!
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Re: Lace makers in Nottingham / Calais

Postby janbal » Sat Nov 28, 2015 6:59 am

Hi Rosie,
Found your posts very interesting. My lace makers were the Pedder family. Have traced much re the family. William( a stocking weaver from Basford) actually enlisted in 7th dragoon Guards , went to Scotland where he married Helen Paton 1823. Guards went to Ireland where son James b abt 1824, resigned 1825. Then went to France as lace maker where daughter Mary b 1826 Dunkirk, not Calais (my line & I have her BC). Back in Notts on 1841 census and William & John then Calais 1846 census. James, Mary & John came to Aust. Wondered whether you had any additional info re this family and especially William as I can't find his birth, parents or when or where he died. Also anything re Mary's husband Thomas Ball b Beeston 1825. Found him 1846 Calais census as lacemaker- strange as he was a bootmaker.
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