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Help need re this photo

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Help need re this photo

Postby Labris09 » Fri Jan 22, 2010 2:59 pm

:roll:
I have been told that this photo is of my great, great, grandfather and that he was a gamekeeper. Written at the bottom of the photo is the word 'Alladale', which I understand is an estate in Scotland. Emails that I have sent to them have been returned as undeliverable.

I have no further information on the gentleman. Any help concerning the photo with regards to date, dress and anything else would be greatly appreciated

Thank you
IMAGE 39x.jpg
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Labris09
 
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Re: Help need re this photo

Postby steve bannister 1 » Fri Jan 22, 2010 4:05 pm

Alladale, isn't just an estate. The Alladale River runs through Highland Scotland, where it merges to form the River Carron. The word 'Alladale' on the photo may just mean that the photo was taken 'along the Alladale River'. The river is famous for Salmon and therefore would have been a target for poachers. Your GG-Grandfather, as gamekeeper, would have been protecting the Salmon from poachers on whosever land he worked on. There may have been other estates along the river, so do you know which estate your GG-Grandfather worked on? You can search the Scottish Census on Scotlands People, but you will pay for this, or you can search Ancestry.com. If you don't have a subscription for Ancestry, I can search it for you if you give me some more details.

Good luck,

Steve.
Researching:
BAPTISTE - Tobago, then moved to Glasgow in 1870's
YOUNG - Glasgow
GALLER - Austria
DEASE - Ireland (Westmeath/Meath/Coole/Kildare)
BEARDMORE - Newcastle Under Lyme, Staffordshire
HAIGH - London (Originally Halifax, Yorkshire)
steve bannister 1
 
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Re: Help need re this photo

Postby steve bannister 1 » Sat Jan 23, 2010 9:49 am

Hi Steve

Many thanks for your comprehensive information on Alladale. I didn't realise that Alladale was also a river.

I have no other information, just a photo with the word Allade on it and word of mouth that he was my GG-Grandfather and was a gamekeeper.

Very little to go on. I have some info on one son but no dates.

Thank you for your very kind offer of searching Ancestry for me but insufficient data at the moment.


Not sure how much research you have done on the rest of your family, but you should only have 8 GG-Grandfathers to trace. Do you know which line this GG-Grandfather is at the end of? If you haven't gone that far back yet, the best way is to search the census' of all four Grandparents, use those census' to find out who their parents were (your Great Grandparents), go back further to find their parents (your Great Great Grandparents). I know that these results will double every time, but you know that you are looking for a Scottish ancestor, so that should narrow it down (unless all of your ancesters are from Scotland) and eventualy you should find an ancestor with the occupation of 'Gamekeeper'. If you don't find 'Gamekeeper' on a census return, try and find marriage certificates, entries in parish registers, for these ancester's and hopefully you'll find an occupation of 'Gamekeeper' listed there.

Being a 'GG-Grandfather, hopefully you should still be post 1837, so marriage certificates should be useful. The beauty is that this is a Scottich ancestor, and the records are very good.

You say that you have insufficient data, but I bet you have plenty to start tracing back. I suggest that you post, or send, as much information that you have and we will see what we can do.

Steve.
Researching:
BAPTISTE - Tobago, then moved to Glasgow in 1870's
YOUNG - Glasgow
GALLER - Austria
DEASE - Ireland (Westmeath/Meath/Coole/Kildare)
BEARDMORE - Newcastle Under Lyme, Staffordshire
HAIGH - London (Originally Halifax, Yorkshire)
steve bannister 1
 
Posts: 121
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:29 pm

Re: Help need re this photo

Postby ksouthall » Sat Jan 23, 2010 10:31 am

steve_bannister has offered some good suggestions for tracing your great-great-grandfather.

If there is any other writing on the photo that might also help. For example, does the photo have the photographer's name on it? It is possible to find out when photographers were trading through trade directories and censuses.
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Location: Sussex

Re: Help need re this photo

Postby steve bannister 1 » Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:27 pm

Hi John,

How long have you been trying to trace this Great Great Grandfather of yours? Have you had much help from your family?

Well…I think I may have the answer for you. I believe that your Great Great Grandfather was a man called George Ross, born in 1850 and lived to the age of 81.

In his teens and early twenties, George was part of the team that constructed the Highway Railway Line.

He Married Williamina Cameron on 23rd February 1881. At the time, Williamina was a live-in domestic servant for a Farmer and his family. At the time of the 1881 census (3/4 April 1881), Williamina was still staying Inverbroom House, on the farm where she worked as a servant for John and Alice Fowler. In 1881, at the age of 31, George was already Head Keeper at Alladale looking after the Salmon in the rivers and the Deer in the forest.

By 1891, George was obviously earning enough money as a Gamekeeper for Williamina to have left her job and they were both living at the Cottage at Alladale. By 1891 they had 5 children; Elizabeth (b. 1883), Donald (b. 1885), Cameron (b. 1887), Jane Ann Ross (b. 1889) and Alexander Ross (b. 1890).

By 1901 George and Williamina had 2 more children; John Wark Ross (b. 1895) and George Ross Jr. (b. 1897). Elizabeth was now a teacher and Donald was following in his father’s footsteps as Gamekeeper’s Assistant.

Paul Lister, the son of Noel Lister, the co-founder of the MFI furniture empire, bought the 153-square mile Alladale estate, which straddles Sutherland and Easter Ross, for £3.2m a few years ago with the intention of creating Britain's first ecological game reserve, containing Wolves, Lynx and Bears.


George Ross’s Obituary Taken From ‘The Northern Times’ 1931

Ardgay - The late Mr. George Ross, Strathcarron, Ardgay, was well known to every one in the district, where he spent his long life.

He was over eighty-one years of age and maintained his marvelous vitality in a great measure until recently. His constitution was that of the typical old Highlander, inured to all hardships of weather and fatigue.

He was one of the veterans who shared in the construction of the Highland Railway line to BonarBridge, when the Duke of Sutherland of that time used influence to have the benefit extended northwards.

It is noteworthy that George Ross, while following its course, tramped every morning down from Strathcarron to Ardgay, a distance of several miles, and thence onwards till his work took him near Lairg, laboured faithfully all day, and returned to his home in the evening.The walk alone would be a day's work nowadays.

Shortly afterwards he was engaged as gamekeeper in Alladale deer forest.

Later he got a holding in Strathcarron where he showed considerable enterprise in the matter of stock-breeding. He also engaged in shop-keeping, being the pioneer of the extensive van services, which are now run daily.

He occupied the holding to the end. In the eighties of last century, when illicit distillation of whisky was practically general in the glens and straths, George Ross had many exciting adventures. He had remarkable ingenuity in the construction of the various utensils.

He was remarkable also for his achievements with rod, gun and rifle.

He had a quaint wit which, together with his efficiency in sporting tactics, rendered him popular with the tenants and proprietors for whom he acted.

It is worthy of record that, while he was involved in a dispute with waterbailiffs in 1913, Sir Charles Ross of Balnagown offered the Balnagown Estates Law Agent to defend him, free of charge. This is a typical instance of the place George held in the regard of those who knew him.

He was of a family of esteemed brothers and sisters and had also two estimable daughters, both married.

He is survived by his daughters and by one sister. Near relatives and a large company of neighbours and friends paid the last tributes at his funeral to Kincardine Churchyard, where the Rev H F MacNeill officiated.


Hope this helps with your brick wall, it should open up a few new avenues for you to trace. If you want anymore help, just ask.

Steve.
Last edited by steve bannister 1 on Thu Jan 28, 2010 11:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
Researching:
BAPTISTE - Tobago, then moved to Glasgow in 1870's
YOUNG - Glasgow
GALLER - Austria
DEASE - Ireland (Westmeath/Meath/Coole/Kildare)
BEARDMORE - Newcastle Under Lyme, Staffordshire
HAIGH - London (Originally Halifax, Yorkshire)
steve bannister 1
 
Posts: 121
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:29 pm

Re: Help need re this photo

Postby Labris09 » Thu Jan 28, 2010 8:29 am

Hi Steve,

Thanks for your very interesting email.

You ask how long have I been trying to trace my Great, Great, Grandfather and have I had any help from my family. The answer is somewhat convoluted but as you have asked…

In 1998 after my Mother’s death and the destruction of her home by fire, I realized that I had very little information on my father’s death in WW2. My mother had spoken very little on the matter and any documentation had been lost in the fire. All that I knew at the time was that my Father had been killed at ‘St.Valery’ in France.

After some very strong pushing from my wife with her war cry of ‘If you don’t find out, nobody will. Your descendants will never know’. Anyway after much research I found that he had been buried at a Veules-Les-Roses, a communal cemetery a few miles east of St Valery en Caux in northern France. This was followed by a family visit to the grave, probably the most moving event that I had ever been party to. With the help of the Royal Engineers Museum I finally traced his movements from landing in France in 1939 to within 3 days of his death in 1940.

I live in a 17th century Wealdon type house and had done research on the families that lived in it.

It was at this point that I decided to research my own family tree again with the war cry of ‘If you don’t do it, nobody will’.

Things have gone pretty well up to GG Grandfather, if in fact he is my GG Grandfather. If he is, then one of his sons William Frederick Smith died in 1899 married Sarah who was born in 1852 in London and died in 1931 after immigrating to Australia with her daughter.

In my ignorance I cannot follow how you tie George Ross with a only a photo and the word ‘Alladay’

Take care

John
Labris09
 
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Re: Help need re this photo

Postby steve bannister 1 » Thu Jan 28, 2010 11:29 am

Labris09 wrote:Hi Steve,

Thanks for your very interesting email.

In my ignorance I cannot follow how you tie George Ross with a only a photo and the word ‘Alladay’

Take care

John


It was fairly easy, really. You told me that he was a Gamekeeper and the picture has 'Alladale' on it. As I could roughy date the photo to around the late 1800's. I searched to see that there was only one Gamekeeper at Alladale at this time, this gave me his name. From there I was able to find family, look them up on 3 census' and also find an obituary.

I've been doing this for quite a few years, now, so you learn a few tricks.

Good luck with the rest of your research.

Steve.
Researching:
BAPTISTE - Tobago, then moved to Glasgow in 1870's
YOUNG - Glasgow
GALLER - Austria
DEASE - Ireland (Westmeath/Meath/Coole/Kildare)
BEARDMORE - Newcastle Under Lyme, Staffordshire
HAIGH - London (Originally Halifax, Yorkshire)
steve bannister 1
 
Posts: 121
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:29 pm

Re: Help need re this photo

Postby iain » Sun Jul 29, 2012 5:07 pm

Writing a history of Alladale Lodge and Estate and may be able to help. My email address is iain.thornber@btinternet.com can someone please contact me direct as I find this site almost impossible to use.
iain
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2012 1:11 pm

Re: Help need re this photo

Postby Bcross-1 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:29 pm

I too am looking for a George Ross (Gamekeeper). When I found this forum I thought I struck gold but of course dates did not match. My husband is nearly 90 now and the family has been trying track down his GG grandfather in Old Deer or Aden. I have a birth of a daughter in 1837, Mary Ann Ross. Mother's maiden name Cruden. The story goes that he came to Muckross Ireland with the Herbert family as gamekeeper. I believe the Herberts were large land owners in Scotland. George Ross eventually became the owner of Muckross Hotel. This will do for now. If anyone has some record of gameskeepers we would be so grateful
Bcross-1
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:48 pm

Re: Help need re this photo

Postby woodchal » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:30 am

iain wrote:Writing a history of Alladale Lodge and Estate and may be able to help. My email address is iain.thornber@btinternet.com can someone please contact me direct as I find this site almost impossible to use.


We must respect what you say about finding forum hard to manage. However you did manage to post your reply OK.

From my perspective I think think it is the narrative of queries that forum members find interesting and keep them coming back to the forum. I think private messages exist to exchange very personal private information. Please don't hide interesting stuff away.

Perhaps WDYTYA can work on usage guides to help you and others. They could also provide guidance on the aims of the forum and how people should use the forum. For example for your own online security it is probably best not to publish email address in an open forum.
woodchal
 
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