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Martha Gandy - where is she in 1841 and where was she born?

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Martha Gandy - where is she in 1841 and where was she born?

Postby tpiy » Wed May 06, 2020 2:38 pm

Martha Gandy was born about 1829, possibly a year either side. She married Isaac Williams on 25th December 1845. Her father is given as John Gandy ‘Waterman’ and one of the witnesses was Elizabeth Gandy, possibly a sister, mother or cousin. She can’t be found on the 1841 Census but on the 1851 census her birth place is given as Barton. She is now Martha Williams. In 1861 she has left her husband and now is known as Martha Horrocks, wife of Robert Horrocks - birthplace now Manchester 1829, and also Manchester on 1871 Census. On 1891 Census birthplace now Barton again and year of birth 1831.

Possible parents for Martha are John and Alice Gandy from Salford but John on 1841 Census is a Cotton Weaver. On the 1851 census for Martha Williams and Isaac Williams two visitors are John Gunday and Jane Gunday - John is possibly a sibling and also a Cotton Weaver. Another John Gandy appears on the 1851 Census for Over Cheshire. He is a Waterman and his wife Betty (Elizabeth) Gandy nee Littler (Sittler). They have 6 children on the 1841 census - John is on the 1851 and 1861 censuses only. Martha does not appear on the 1841 census with this family.

I have looked many times to find a Baptism record that might prove parentage, but to no success.

Any suggestions? I would be grateful for any help you might be able to give.


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Re: Martha Gandy - where is she in 1841 and where was she bo

Postby MoVidger » Wed May 06, 2020 5:54 pm

Martha's address on her 1845 marriage record is 68 Hewitt Street, Manchester. FMP has this record with image below. I'm wondering if "Jan" in the 1845 image should really be "Jno" or "John".

NOTE: There are also 1838 and 1842 records, which indicate a Jno Gandy residing at 65 Hewitt Street. Hopefully these three records suggest the Gandy family can be located on Hewitt Street in the 1841 census.

Manchester Rate Books 1706-1900
First name(s) Jan
Last name Gandy
Occupier's first name(s) Jan
Occupier's last name Gandy
Owner's first name(s) Jno
Owner's last name Kaye
Date 1845
House number 68
Address Hewitt Street
Location Manchester Township
Title of record Poor Rate Assessments
Archive reference M 9/40/2/145
Last edited by MoVidger on Wed May 06, 2020 6:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Martha Gandy - where is she in 1841 and where was she bo

Postby tpiy » Wed May 06, 2020 6:48 pm

Thanks for this useful reply. I am certain that this is probably the right family, and Hewitt Street is near to the Canal. Do you by any chance know how to use the address search feature on FMP? Your help is much appreciated.


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Re: Martha Gandy - where is she in 1841 and where was she bo

Postby MoVidger » Wed May 06, 2020 6:57 pm

Select the census year you want. Above the First Name and Last Name fields you'll see a round button with a blue dot. Click on the "Address" side. A new screen will appear, giving you fields such as Street, Parish or Town. I tend to use just the Street field. Then select the relevant street from the list of cities/towns displayed.
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Re: Martha Gandy - where is she in 1841 and where was she bo

Postby MoVidger » Wed May 06, 2020 7:30 pm

Death and inquest of John Gandy (boatman) mentioned in:
Manchester Courier and Lancashire General Advertiser 10 December 1842

His address: 65 Hewitt Street. He was employed by William Turner. Gandy died after being kicked by his horse. Deceased left a widow and 6 children.
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Re: Martha Gandy - where is she in 1841 and where was she bo

Postby tpiy » Wed May 06, 2020 7:39 pm

Wow! What a find. Haven’t managed to locate him on the Census for 1841, but I will now check to see if any other information re family names is given about his family in the newspaper and I will check on GRO to see how old he was. I didn’t know about this address search toggle Thanks


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Re: Martha Gandy - where is she in 1841 and where was she bo

Postby tpiy » Thu May 07, 2020 11:11 am

I have now downloaded the article. It wasn’t easy to find however, because when I put in John Gandy there were no articles for December 1842. I found it by going to the date and newspaper suggested. Is there a better way of using this archive? I have trawled the 1841 Hewitt Street in one direction and found by trawling further the Street showed up again, so this afternoon I will trawl in the other direction, and I will also try the street for 1851. No luck so far. I know that the probable siblings for Martha Gandy are Jane and John Gandy - Gunday on the 1851 Census. Thanks again for your help.


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Re: Martha Gandy - where is she in 1841 and where was she bo

Postby MoVidger » Thu May 07, 2020 3:08 pm

Newspaper searches can be tricky, due to OCR text errors within the article itself. Example: Gandy appears as "Gamiv" in the 1842 article. This is why I included names (William Turner), abode (Hewitt Street), and cause of death (horse) to enable you to find the article quicker. Sorry, I should've advised you to use those words in your search. When I initially searched I just used "Hewitt Street" and selected Manchester for the place. That's when I saw the blurb containing "65 Hewitt Street".

As for the 1841 census, I can't understand why John Gandy and family don't appear on Hewitt Street. I went back to one of the Manchester Rate Book records for other occupiers on Hewitt Street. I used one of the names (Thomas & Ann Schofield) as an example. They do appear on Hewitt Street in 1841.

I'm wondering if the enumerator missed an area of Hewitt Street? If you look at the first page of that census area, which indicates the various streets covered, you'll see he's written something like "then down the right of Hewitt Street". Did his census journey miss the Gandy's family segment of Hewitt Street by accident?
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Re: Martha Gandy - where is she in 1841 and where was she bo

Postby MoVidger » Thu May 07, 2020 3:54 pm

As regards pre-1843 Gandy baptisms in Barton upon Irwell, there appears to be a lack of online records. See link below for details and chart. So if Martha and other siblings were born in Barton, you may struggle to find their baptism records.

https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/Ba ... _Genealogy
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Re: Martha Gandy - where is she in 1841 and where was she bo

Postby tpiy » Thu May 07, 2020 4:38 pm

Thanks again - I have trawled slowly through the 1841 census to no effect. I have also checked for Martha’s potential siblings Jane and John Gandy (born Hulme?) plus checked for possible remarriage of John’s widow (Christian name unknown but possibly Elizabeth who was a witness to Martha’s wedding). Perhaps this is a brick wall I can’t break down. Will certainly get a death certificate to see if that helps.


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