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3 Missing Oliver Children - 1911 Census

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3 Missing Oliver Children - 1911 Census

Postby Robbie J N » Tue Mar 31, 2020 2:17 pm

Following the 'Fertility of women' question in the 'Genealogy chat' forum, I am stuck trying to find all the children of the largest family I have in one of my trees.

Henry Thomas Oliver, born 1871, married Emily Harriet Williams on 5th July 1891 (after the 1891 census).
According to the 1911 census they had had 14 children, of which 6 were living and 8 had died.
After the census they had 2 more children, bringing the total to 16, last one in 1915.
The problem I have is that of the pre-1911 census children, I can only find records for 11 out of 14.

Here is the (long) list of the names I have and whether they were still alive at the time of the census or not:
1 - Henry Charles Frederick - 1891 Q3
2 - Ernest Winson - 1893 Q2 - ALIVE 1911
3 - Florence Emily - 1894 Q2
4 - Charles David - 1897 Q2 - ALIVE 1911
5 - Edith Ellen - 1898 Q2
6 - Arthur Robert - 1899 Q3 - ALIVE 1911
7 - Dorothy Ada - 1901 Q2
8 - William Thomas - 1903 Q4 - ALIVE 1911
9 - Robert James - 1904 Q4
10 - Thomas Fredrick - 1907 Q2 - ALIVE 1911
11 - Edward John - 1910 Q3 - ALIVE 1911
12 - George Winson - 1911 Q4 - Born after census
13 - Charles Henry - 1915 Q2 - Born after census

All births were registered in Lambeth, except for Edward John, who was in Wandsworth, which is quite close to Lambeth. (Plus Edward John was on the 1911 census, so it is the same family.)
Charles David died in 1911 Q2, after the census, hence another child could be called Charles.
Charles Henry may be listed as Charles Edward on his (posthumous) baptism record.

On the 1901 census, Henry, Ernest, Charles and Arthur are the only children listed.
In 1911 the family are listed as visiting Henry Thomas's parents Harriet (Winson) and Thomas Henry Oliver.

If anyone can help find the 3 missing children, that would be very much appreciated.
There is probably a reason why they are difficult to find, such as they died before their births could be registered, or something like that, but maybe I have missed something.
I know the Oliver/Williams combination is not exactly rare, but the other children born in that time period, with surname Oliver and mother’s maiden name Williams, are not particularly close to Lambeth and Wandsworth.
The 4 most likely 'gaps' are between 1894-1897, 1901-1903, 1904-1907 and 1907-1910, all of which are at least 2 1/2 years, roughly.

Thank you for any help you can provide with regard to this.



(I have mentioned Henry Thomas Oliver before as he was mentioned TWICE on the 1881 census, once with his parents and siblings, and once with his grandfather and uncle. I am not sure which one is correct.)
Robbie J N
 
Posts: 154
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:25 am

Re: 3 Missing Oliver Children - 1911 Census

Postby elsabels » Fri Apr 03, 2020 11:23 pm

1 - Henry Charles Frederick - 1891 Q3 died q2 1907 Lambeth v1d p155

3 - Florence Emily - 1894 Q2 died q2 1896 Lambeth v1d p227

5 - Edith Ellen - 1898 Q2 died q3 1898 Lambeth v1d p238

7 - Dorothy Ada - 1901 Q2 died q1 1903 Lambeth v1d p190

9 - Robert James - 1904 Q4 died q1 1905 Lambeth v1d p196

I cannot find any births for the blank years...1892/ 895/1896/1900/1902/1905/1906/1908/1909
elsabels
 
Posts: 353
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2018 11:09 pm

Re: 3 Missing Oliver Children - 1911 Census

Postby Robbie J N » Sat Apr 04, 2020 1:48 am

Thank you for the death dates.
I think I had most of them, but not all.

I have not been able to find many baptism records for the children.
Henry Charles Frederick - St Mary Newington.
Ernest Winson, Arthur Robert & Dorothy Ada - Emmanuel, Lambeth.
Both parents’ names are given correctly.
Address given was 28A Richmond Street for all 4.

Charles Henry was called Charles Edward for his baptism in St Mary, Lambeth.
Father was called Henry Winson Oliver for some reason.
Mother’s name given correctly.
Address was 37 Richmond Street.

Edward J and George W were living together with their mother on the 1939 Register, with dates of birth matching birth records. (Obviously a delayed birth registration of at least 11 days for Edward, 20th June not registered until at least July.)
So George Winson is definitely from the same family, plus his middle name was his grandmother’s maiden surname. (The 1921 census will show that when it gets released, hopefully.)

If anyone can find any of the other baptism records for any missing children, then that might indicate what to look for in the birth records.
I think that these names will remain a mystery due to the reasons I gave in the initial post.

Thanks again for any help anyone can provide with regard to this.



Quick Addition:
I am confused - I think that Henry Thomas Oliver might have died in 1912, and certainly before 1920, because his wife remarried in 1920 Q3 Lambeth to a Walter G Payne, hence her name being given as Emily H Payne on the 1939 Register.
If Henry was dead how did he have a child in 1915?
Maybe I have the wrong Henry, but I checked up to 1940, as his wife was listed as a widow in 1939, and the age matches and his death was registered in Lambeth, and there are no other real candidates.
Plus, if Charles Henry died in 1917 Q1 Lambeth, why did it say ‘posthumous’ in brackets after his name on his baptism record in 1915? (Unless it says something else.)
This has just become more confusing!
Robbie J N
 
Posts: 154
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:25 am


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