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Folks missing from the 1939 Register...

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Folks missing from the 1939 Register...

Postby Cachalot6972 » Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:41 pm

I’m having a bit of a problem finding a couple of people in the 1939 Register and wondered if some fresh eyes could help.

They are John Emanuel MATTHEWS, born 24 March 1894, Stoke Damerel, and his wife Kathleen Amelia (nee OLLIFF): birth record: OLLIFF, KATHLEEN AMELIA [COY] GRO Reference: 1907 M Quarter in GRAVESEND Volume 02A Page 673.
A birth record for John hasn’t yet been found, his dob is from the baptism register so may not be 100% correct.

Their first child was born in 1937 in Gravesend, but their second was born in Southport district in 1944.

In 1911, John is an Electrical engineering apprentice in Plymouth dockyard. This could explain his being in Gravesend in 1933 when he married Kathleen; other Royal Dockyard workers in the family are known to have moved between dockyards.

John died 24 Sep 1963 and Kathleen 04 Sep 1981, both in Bournemouth.

I’ve tried various permutations of their names but so far they are hiding themselves really well...
Last edited by Cachalot6972 on Sat Mar 28, 2020 9:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Folks missing from the 1939 Register...

Postby MoVidger » Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:30 pm

Name: John Emmanuel Matthews
Registration Year: 1894
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Registration district: Stoke Damerel
Volume: 5b
Page: 11
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Re: Folks missing from the 1939 Register...

Postby MayHam » Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:16 am

Did you happen to see the Matthews household of seven in Bootle, Lancashire?
John, born 1900, is a Dock Labourer & Kathleen, born 1907, is his wife. The others are blacked out.
https://www.findmypast.com/transcript?i ... 97A/009/44
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Re: Folks missing from the 1939 Register...

Postby Cachalot6972 » Mon Mar 23, 2020 7:12 am

MoVidger: Thanks for that - and sorry, but I got my John Emanuels mixed up! It's the father that doesn't seem to have a birth record, not the son. :oops:

MayHam: Also thanks, but I think they are the John Matthews and Kathleen Hepton who married in 1923. By 1939, they have had seven children, and there are plausible death records for two of them.

My John & Kathleen had only had one child by 1939, who also seems to have disappeared without trace. He has quite a distinctive name as well.
Phil

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Re: Folks missing from the 1939 Register...

Postby brunes08 » Mon Mar 23, 2020 9:06 am

Many adults and.children were being evacuated to safer areas at this time. It may be that the family has been split up, so not living where you expect them to be. For example, I know of a families from Bristol and London who we evacuated to Cornwall. You may need to think of all the possibilities. Hope that helps a bit.


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Re: Folks missing from the 1939 Register...

Postby Norfolk Nan » Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:52 am

Can I also point out that wives were called upon to do war work and might have been on duty overnight - my own grandmother was not with her husband but elsewhere in the borough working as with the auxiliary fire service.
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Re: Folks missing from the 1939 Register...

Postby AdrianB38 » Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:52 pm

Now I don't think that simply being on duty elsewhere should cause a problem. I've seen a discussion (on here?) about how censuses coped with people who were working nights, and the answer was that they were supposed to be counted at their normal place of residence. Since much of the census process, procedures and instructions were adapted for the 1939 Register, my wild guess, without consulting the instructions, would be that anyone on duty elsewhere *should* have been listed at home. However, it's clearly something slightly unusual so the scope does exist for someone to fall down the cracks between two places, so to speak. And indeed, someone could be listed at their duty site, though instinctively I query the usefulness of that to the authorities...

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Re: Folks missing from the 1939 Register...

Postby MoVidger » Mon Mar 23, 2020 2:13 pm

What is Kathleen Amelia's DoB? Could she be listed as "Kate Amelia" in the 1939 Register? There are quite a few of them, so knowing Kathleen's DoB would help narrow those ladies down. Also, if you have a copy of the 1933 marriage cert, what is John's occupation at the time?
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Re: Folks missing from the 1939 Register...

Postby Cachalot6972 » Mon Mar 23, 2020 4:40 pm

Thanks very much brunes08, Norfolk Nan, AdrianB38 and MoVidger. Either war work or evacuation could be the reason their second child was born in the Stockport district.

MoVidger: I’ve ticked the ‘Include name variants’ boxes when searching which does bring up some weird and wonderful variations, but, so far, nowt. I have other folks who have yet to be found in the Register as well, but those not yet found could just be transcription errors - although even searching with a known date of birth and some way either side of it still doesn’t find them.

As you say Adrian, they seem to have fallen through a crack somewhere.
I don’t yet have any certs for them yet because they are a little way off my main line and I’ve only just started on this ‘twig’. I have their basic BMDs and wills, but I just found it surprising that they didn’t seem to be in the Register. John’s family is from Devon, he married in Kent and their second child was born in Lancashire, so I guess they really could be anywhere.
And of their two known children, I know where one of them is but the other has just vanished. Ho hum...
Phil

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Re: Folks missing from the 1939 Register...

Postby Stevieb3081 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 6:32 pm

I have found your John E Matthews. Because you weren't sure of his DOB, I just put 24 in and left the month out.
I found him living with a family, but not his wife at 24, Gradwell Stockport, Lancashire. His DOB shows as 24/11/1894.

Hope this helps.
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