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William Mitchell and Margaret Greenwood

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William Mitchell and Margaret Greenwood

Postby Rosemary Collins » Thu Mar 05, 2020 12:06 pm

Hello everyone!

I am trying to find out more about my ancestors, William Mitchell and Margaret Greenwood. They were married on 24 Dec 1853 in the British Chaplaincy in St Petersburgh – a long way from home, but there’s a record of the marriage (transcription only) on Ancestry and they also say they were married in St Petersburgh on some of their children’s birth records (giving the date as 4 or 5 Jan 1854, which might be explained by the difference between Eastern and Western calendars).

The children are:

• William, b. Dundee 1854
• Emma, b. Montrose 1856
• Thomas, b. Montrose 1859
• Mary Ann, b. Dundee 1861
• David, b. Brabant, Belgium 1865 (he is listed on the Register of Foreign Births on ScotlandsPeople and gives his place of birth as Belgium in subsequent censuses)
• Margaret, b. Montrose 1868
• George, b. Montrose 1870
• Alice, b. Montrose 1872
• Charles, b. Montrose 1874

I’ve found them in the census:

• 1861 in Dundee. William is 31, b. Montrose, profession contractor/ builder. Margaret is 28, b. England.
• 1871 in Montrose. William is 41, b. Montrose, profession contractor. Margaret is 37, b. England.
• 1881 in Montrose. William is 51, b. Montrose, profession general contractor. Margaret is 47, b. England.
• 1891 in Glasgow. William is Margaret is 61, b. Montrose, occupation railway contractor. 57, b. England.

In 1901, Margaret is living in Glasgow, with her son Charles, daughter Margaret Archie, and grandchildren Clara Mitchell and Catherine Archie. She is listed as ‘Living on Independent Means’.

Margaret died in Glasgow on 2 May 1909. She is listed as ‘Widow of William Mitchell, Railway Contractor’ and her age as 76. Her parents are Thomas Greenwood, Mechanical Engineer (deceased) and Mary Greenwood, nee Street, deceased.

My questions are:

• Can I locate baptisms for Margaret and William, and where they are in the 1841 and 1851 censuses? There is a possible baptism for a Margaret Greenwood on 1 November 1835 in Poulton le Fylde, Lancashire. Parents are Thomas and Peggy. Father’s profession is labourer.

• Can I find a death record for William?

• Any thoughts on why they moved around so much? Living in both Russia and Belgium seems extraordinary for a ‘contractor’ in the 19th century – is there any way I can find out more about this?
Rosemary Collins
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Who Do You Think You Are? Magazine

rosemary.collins@immediate.co.uk
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Re: William Mitchell and Margaret Greenwood

Postby meekhcs » Thu Mar 05, 2020 12:52 pm

Just a quick reply re contractor abroad.
Even in the 19c we were one of the foremost and knowledgeable Raiway constructing countries.Look how quickly our Rail system developed. It didn't take long for other countries to take advantage of our knowledge and I suspect your ancestor would have been employed by one of the main companies created to work at the time in this field. A few minutes spent googling should throw up several leads and I am sure ages ago a similar post was put on this Forum so maybe a search of the Board with maybe railway contractor or similar as a search item may find it?
In another life in the late 70s/early 80s I worked for Vickers Design and Projects Div, which became Brown Root Vickers and eventually part of Rolls Royce, and we still had huge railway construction projects all over the world, Russia, China and South America then.
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Re: William Mitchell and Margaret Greenwood

Postby MoVidger » Thu Mar 05, 2020 2:17 pm

Hi Rosemary - there is a William Mitchell mentioned quite a few times in the Scottish newspapers. Check for him in 1862. There are some adverts which mention a William Mitchell, contractor, in Montrose. The notices relate to the sale of steam engines and pumps.

Also, there are 1888 and 1889 bankruptcy related notices for a William Mitchell (contractor) residing in Airdrie. Is he your chap?
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Re: William Mitchell and Margaret Greenwood

Postby MoVidger » Thu Mar 05, 2020 2:43 pm

There is also a mention of a William Mitchell, Esq in "Bradshaw's Railway Manual, Shareholder's Guide and Official Directory" (page 263) -- published in 1878. It's a Google book and can be accessed easily.

The notice also mentions a David Mitchell, Esq (also of Montrose). He must be a relative of the above.
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Re: William Mitchell and Margaret Greenwood

Postby MoVidger » Thu Mar 05, 2020 4:20 pm

Is this William's probate record? The deceased was a contractor. Record on Ancestry.

Scotland, National Probate Index (Calendar of Confirmations and Inventories), 1876-1936
Name: William Mitchell
Death Date: 23 Apr 1897
Death Place: Glasgow, Scotland
Confirmation Date: 28 Mar 1899
Confirmation Place: Glasgow, Scotland
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Re: William Mitchell and Margaret Greenwood

Postby MoVidger » Thu Mar 05, 2020 4:48 pm

This marriage in Manchester looks good for Margaret's parents:

Marriage: 12 Aug 1830 St Mary, Manchester, Lancashire, England
Thomas Greenwood - Mechanic, Bachelor, this parish
Mary Ann Street - (X), Spinster, this parish

Also, this baptism is looking very good for Margaret:

Baptism: 15 May 1836 Collegiate, Manchester, Lancashire, England
Margaret Greenwood - daughter of Thomas Greenwood & Mary
Born: 21 Aug 1833
Abode: Hulme
Occupation: Mechanic

Looks like the couple had these other children: William (bap 1831 Chorlton on Medlock), Emma (bap 1835 Hulme). Thomas (bap 1840 Manchester). A second son named William (born 1844 Hamer's Bldgs, Hulme). Mary Ann, (b 1847 Hulme).

One of the baptisms indicates Thomas' occupation as "pattern maker to mechanics".
Last edited by MoVidger on Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: William Mitchell and Margaret Greenwood

Postby elsabels » Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:38 pm

Both FMP
1841
Union Street, Montrose, Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland

William Mitchell 35 1806 Scotland
Ann Mitchell 35 1806 Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland
William Mitchell 11 1830 Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland
Jess Mitchell 10 1831 Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland
Ann Mitchell 8 1833 Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland
Elizabeth Mitchell 6 1835 Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland
Isabell Mitchell 2 1839 Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland
David Mitchell Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland

1851
17, Mill Street, Montrose, Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland

William Mitchell Head Married 47 1804 Flax Spinning Mill Manager Garvock, Kincardineshire, Scotland
Ann Mitchell Wife Married 48 1803 - Montrose, Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland
Jessie Mitchell Daughter Unmarried 20 1831 Dress Maker Montrose, Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland
Ann Mitchell Daughter Unmarried 18 1833 Dress Maker (App) Montrose, Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland
Elizabeth Mitchell Daughter Unmarried 16 1835 Scholar Montrose, Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland
David Mitchell Son Unmarried 10 1841 Scholar Montrose, Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland
Margaret Mitchell Daughter Unmarried 8 1843 Scholar Montrose, Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland
Jane Mitchell Daughter - 5 1846 Scholar Montrose, Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland
Mary Ann Mitchell Daughter - 3 1848 At Home Montrose, Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland
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Re: William Mitchell and Margaret Greenwood

Postby junkers » Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:29 pm

Rosemary Collins wrote:Hello everyone!

I am trying to find out more about my ancestors, William Mitchell and Margaret Greenwood. They were married on 24 Dec 1853 in the British Chaplaincy in St Petersburgh – a long way from home, but there’s a record of the marriage (transcription only) on Ancestry and they also say they were married in St Petersburgh on some of their children’s birth records (giving the date as 4 or 5 Jan 1854, which might be explained by the difference between Eastern and Western calendars).

The children are:

• William, b. Dundee 1854
• Emma, b. Montrose 1856
• Thomas, b. Montrose 1859
• Mary Ann, b. Dundee 1861
• David, b. Brabant, Belgium 1865 (he is listed on the Register of Foreign Births on ScotlandsPeople and gives his place of birth as Belgium in subsequent censuses)
• Margaret, b. Montrose 1868
• George, b. Montrose 1870
• Alice, b. Montrose 1872
• Charles, b. Montrose 1874

• Any thoughts on why they moved around so much? Living in both Russia and Belgium seems extraordinary for a ‘contractor’ in the 19th century – is there any way I can find out more about this?


St Petersburg (as it is now) used to be spelt as St Petersburgh, so I presume these are the one and the same and St Petersburg was more important than Moscow, the Czar lived there rather in Moscow. At the time there was the building of the railway line from St Petersburg to Moscow and later from St Petersburg to Warsaw, so he may have been providing equipment. In 1865 Belgium had only existed as an independent country for 35 years so they may have wanted to improve. Have you looked to see what records there from the British Embassy/Consulate from St Petersburg that may be at The National Archives.
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Re: William Mitchell and Margaret Greenwood

Postby elsabels » Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:41 pm

Name: William Mitchell
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 4 Nov 1829
Birth Place: Montrose,Angus,Scotland
Father: William Mitchell
Mother: Ann Beattie
FHL Film Number: 993498
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Re: William Mitchell and Margaret Greenwood

Postby MoVidger » Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:03 am

Hi Rosemary - there is a lengthy and informative obit for William Mitchell in the Montrose, Arbroath and Brechin Review; and Forfar and Kincardineshire Advertiser - 30 April 1897.

Obit indicates he was "the son of William Mitchell, respected manager of Messrs Richards & Company (millspinners in Montrose)".

"Deceased, after serving an apprenticeship as a mechanic, got an engagement in Russia, where he resided for a number of years. On returning to Scotland, he became a partner with his late uncle Bailie David Mitchell, and under the firm title of Messrs Mitchell & Ireland (railway contractors) the company executed a number of large contracts. One of the most important was the construction of a railway extending 22 miles, and including numerous bridges, in Belgium".

His father William's lengthy obit can be found in the Montrose, Arbroath and Brechin Review; and Forfar and Kincardineshire Advertiser - 26 November 1886. He was born in the parish of Garvock in 1802.
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