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My Great Grandfather.

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My Great Grandfather.

Postby Lumi » Mon Mar 02, 2020 6:19 pm

Hi, I'm all new to this. I have started researching my dads family tree.
However I have come to a brick wall regarding my Nanna's dad. I have her mothers name. But her mother & father weren't married. But my Nanna's birth was registered with her fathers name, Carruthers. But his name is not on her birth certificate.
I've asked my uncle's but they dont have any information. What I have been told is that he was a lodger.
And that he possibly moved to Derbyshire or Coventry & started a new family.
Can someone point me in the right direction as to how I am going to discover any info regarding my Nanna's dad?
Thanks.
Lumi
 
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Re: My Great Grandfather.

Postby Mick Loney » Mon Mar 02, 2020 6:30 pm

Lumi,
We need a few more details in order to help you.
What was your nana’s name and when and where was she born?
What are the actual details on her birth certificate?
Was she baptised, if so, where and when?
Each bit of extra information helps us identify her and her family.
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Re: My Great Grandfather.

Postby Templ4r » Mon Mar 02, 2020 6:35 pm

Without names, dates or area they lived in, we can't do a lot to help.

But, Carruthers is a fairly rare name (not like Smith or Brown), so if your Nanna was born close to a census, look for any Carruthers local to where she was born. If you can find him on the next census and he is in Derbyshire or Coventry, he's possibly your man. If she was baptised, he might be put down as "reputed father". There are a lot of things you can check, just depends on the dates.
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Re: My Great Grandfather.

Postby Lumi » Mon Mar 02, 2020 6:43 pm

My Nanna's name on birth certificate is Mary Joyce Carruthers born 2nd Aug 1915, Wapping, Haltwhistle, Northumberland. (married name Walton, known as Joyce Walton)
Her mothers name was Alice Porter. Maiden name Armstrong.
My Nanna also had a sister with same surname, Ethel Carruthers. Born 1917 (married name Potts). Both my Nanna & Ethel at times appears to carry the 'Porter' name also on some records.
I hope this helps. Thank you for your reply.
Lumi
 
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Re: My Great Grandfather.

Postby Templ4r » Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:28 pm

There are a few Carruthers about around Haltwhistle in 1911. James Henry was killed on 27 sept 1916 in France. Wallace born 1873, James born 1882. Jonathon 1890 and John 1892 are still there in 1939. All married. (Assuming one of them isn't the father and the Derbyshire/ Coventry story is true)

That leaves Hugh 1879 and Robert 1887 single men, who were about in 1901 unaccounted for. Need to see where they were in 1911.
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Re: My Great Grandfather.

Postby avaline » Mon Mar 02, 2020 11:46 pm

Do you have the certificates showing the surname as Carruthers? According to the GRO both girls were registered with the surname Porter:

PORTER, MARY JOYCE mmn ARMSTRONG
GRO Reference: 1915 S Quarter in HALTWHISTLE Volume 10B Page 760 Occasional Copy: A

PORTER, ETHEL ANNIE CARRUTHERS mmn ARMSTRONG
GRO Reference: 1917 D Quarter in HALTWHISTLE Volume 10B Page 649
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Re: My Great Grandfather.

Postby Lumi » Tue Mar 03, 2020 6:53 am

I have a copy of my Nanna's and the name on it is Mary Joyce Carruthers.
I have been contemplating ordering a copy of Ethel's.
Attachments
20200303_073319.jpg
Copy of certificate
20200303_073319.jpg (1.13 MiB) Viewed 681 times
Lumi
 
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My Great Grandfather.

Postby Will Mundy » Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:10 am

I have located Alice in the 1939 register she lived at 13 Fell View Haltwhistle.
Born 8th Apr 1881 she is under the name Porter listed as married living with two children Ethel Potts (Carruthers) born 9 Oct 1917 she is listed as a bakery assistant and John Porter born 22 Dec 1922

For Coventry the only possibility I found was a David Carruthers born 1874
Derbyshire there were a few more possibles, if there is any record of his first name that would help narrow it down but I found a Robert Carruthers born 1875 living in Chesterfield and a Thomas born 1883 living in Repton.

I found in 1911 Alice Porter living with her parents and she is listed as married but no husband mentioned, she appears to have a child Maria born about 1908. Alice married a John Porter in 1904 in Newcastle upon Tyne.

Hope this helps you in your search

Will



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Last edited by Will Mundy on Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: My Great Grandfather.

Postby AntonyM » Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:26 am

Lumi wrote:I have a copy of my Nanna's and the name on it is Mary Joyce Carruthers.
.


Before 1969, birth registrations don't show any surname for the child - so the use of the name Carruthers on this entry is as a middle name, not a surname.

Using the surname of a father in this way is quite common for children born illegitimately - it allowed the mother to include the father's name on the registration, when she couldn't have him entered as the father on the entry (unless he were present).

The mother being shown with a maiden name shows that she was claiming to be a married woman (or had previously been married), but not to the father of this child.

Birth entries are indexed by the surname of the parent(s) named on the entry depending on their marital status. So she appears in the index under PORTER.
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Re: My Great Grandfather.

Postby Lumi » Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:57 am

Thank you for your replies. I will have another investigate & try find out if anyone knows or remembers his name.
I was disappointed when I recieved the birth certificate & her fathers name was missing.
He's obviously been around for a length of time as there is 2 years between my Nanna & Ethel.
I am very new to researching so your responses are much appreciated. Thank you.
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