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David Mitchell 1830

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David Mitchell 1830

Postby Tobina » Fri Dec 27, 2019 1:42 pm

David Mitchell was born in about 1830 in Corragh County Monaghan Ireland. He married Judith Hughes from Armagh but I have been unable to find the marriage date. They had 7 children between 1853 & 1867 all baptised in Dundalk. David Mitchell was a baker. Recently a cousin has found a marriage of Patrick Charles Mitchell in Liverpool in 1890 to Margaret Ellen Gebhardt. The certificate states that Patrick’s father was David Mitchell a baker & the 1891 census states that Patrick was born in Dundalk. We have never heard of Patrick Charles & can find no baptism record. Does anyone think that this is just coincidence or have we missed a son?
Any suggestions are much appreciated, thanks.
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Re: David Mitchell 1830

Postby AdrianB38 » Fri Dec 27, 2019 3:32 pm

Roughly when was PCM born according to the census? How does that date sit with the other children? If it's virtually the same year as one of the ones that you have, then it's less likely. If it's in the middle of a 4y gap (say) then it's much more plausible.

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Re: David Mitchell 1830

Postby Templ4r » Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:21 pm

At marriage she was 18, he was 33, so 1857
but in 1911 he says it's 1853; 1891, 1854
He's buried in Anfield cemetery in 1915 says it's 1858

Elizabeth the daughter of David and Judith was baptised sep 1857, daughter Julia in 1855 and Mary in 1853.
Last edited by Templ4r on Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: David Mitchell 1830

Postby Tobina » Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:51 pm

Thanks for the replies.
I put Patrick’s birth in about 1857. The others are,Mary 1853,Julia 1855,Elizabeth 1857, Thomas 1859,
Bridget 1861, Arthur 1863 & Catherine 1867. I realise this looks strange for Patrick’s estimated birth but I think the 4 year gap in the 1860s is too late. Also as we have the baptism records tethered should be one for him if he was a twin.
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Re: David Mitchell 1830

Postby AdrianB38 » Fri Dec 27, 2019 7:39 pm

I'm assuming that you have seen the images of the baptisms and therefore have seen the immediately adjacent baptisms. If Patrick were a twin of one of those baptised, then it's virtually impossible to believe that his twin sibling would be baptized and not him. (If you haven't seen the images, then there is still a possibility of an error).

At 2 years apart, basically, there's no room for him. Yes there's the 4y gap at the end but that looks too late for Patrick, as you say.

The alternative possibility is right at the start, but that looks too early for his dates. So assuming that his ages in the census are something like true, then, until we see some other evidence, I think that we have to presume that Patrick is just a coincidence.

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Re: David Mitchell 1830

Postby Templ4r » Fri Dec 27, 2019 8:30 pm

They are on Ancestry. It's a copy of the register ( according to the title page) I've check from 1852 and no mention of Patrick, though all but one other are there. Could they have been missed for some reason in the copying?

One thing that does make me wonder. They are all Catholic baptisms, but the marriage certificate says "according to the rites and ceremonies of the established church and by banns" that isn't Catholic and looking at Google, St Nicholas isn't a Catholic church.

Margaret Ellen was baptised C of E at St Peters, maybe that's why.
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Re: David Mitchell 1830

Postby Tobina » Fri Dec 27, 2019 8:46 pm

Hi thanks again for your time & the replies. I have seen the baptism entries both on Ancestry & on the NLI microfilm for Dundalk.
Margaret Ellen Gebhardt’s father was a German Lutheran sailor so presumably this is why the marriage was not in a Catholic Church.
More brick walls or coincidences I think
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Re: David Mitchell 1830

Postby Templ4r » Fri Dec 27, 2019 9:27 pm

FMP has a bit on David Mitchell.

Gets done for no dog licence and one describes the dog when he does get the licence..
Gets done for having a "light" 1lb weight.
Gets done for illegally selling liquour.

There is a Patrick Mitchell in court a few times for assault and owing money.
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Re: David Mitchell 1830

Postby Templ4r » Fri Dec 27, 2019 9:39 pm

Ireland isn't really my thing as I only have one ancestor from there and I have no clue where from but I see Judith is from Armagh and David is from Monaghan. She's northern ireland, he's southern (Eire) so could they have married in the north and IF Patrick was born 1853 the possible first born,could she go back to her mother for the birth?

Aren't NI and Eire records at different archives? PRONI and Dublin?
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Re: David Mitchell 1830

Postby Tobina » Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:51 pm

Thanks again for the replies. I’m going to accept that it’s coincidence. Just a ppoint about Ireland, when David & Judith married the whole of Ireland was 1 country.
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