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Mary Ann Lyons

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Mary Ann Lyons

Postby helen.norton » Tue Nov 26, 2019 12:03 pm

Mary Ann Stephenson was baptised 28 Jan 1810, Aldbrough, East Yorkshire. Her father was Matthew Stephenson. In his will, dated 1859, he names one of his daughters as Mary, wife of John Lyons of London.

On the 1871 & 1881 census at 39 Mason St, Sculcoates (Hull), Yorkshire is a Mary Lyons, widow, annuitant, Born 'Aldbro', Yorks. She is living on her own but this looks like it is her. There is a possible death for a Mary Ann Lyons, Mar 1884, Sculcoates, age 74 which could be her.

In 1851 living at 12 York Street, Lambeth, Surrey is:

John Lyons, Head, 32, Umbrella Maker, Born: Bermondsey, Surrey
Ann Lyons, Wife, 39, Born: 'Allborough, Yorkshire'
Thomas Lyons, Son, 1, Born: Lambeth, Surrey

The birth registration for Thomas Lyons, Dec 1849, Lambeth, gives a mothers maiden name of Stephenson, so this looks like the right family. The only other Lyons/Stephenson birth I can spot in the GRO index is an unnamed female, Sep 1842, Marylebone, but unsure if that is connected.

I have found a transcription on Family Search for a John Lyons burial, 5 Mar 1858, Lambeth, age 36. I haven't seen the image for the burial and the age is a year or two out so unsure if it is correct. When the will was made, in 1859, it says Mary is the 'wife' of John Lyons, not the widow. It also says that any bequests are for her own disposal and free from the control of her husband. This would indicate John was still alive when the will was made so would seem to rule out the 1858 burial.

In terms of a marriage for them there is one in Dec 1841, Chelsea and 2 of the potential spouses are a John Lyons & Mary Ann Stephenson, but there are other potential spouses too and I'm not confident enough to order the certificate at this stage. If ages in 1851 are to be believed then Mary Ann was slightly older than John so it could be that she was a widow when she married him, so not necessarily marrying under the surname Stephenson.

For elimination purposes:

There is a John Lyon/Ann Stephenson marriage in Bridlington in 1826 but that seems way too early, even for Mary Ann, and it says John Lyon was a widower, so I think we can discount that.

There are a couple of other Mary Ann Lyons in Hull in 1851/1861 with a husband named John but they would appear to be different couples given their birthplaces. Looking at the mother's maiden names for their children there are earlier marriages that match up, so I think we can discount them too.

Can anyone help confirm:

A marriage for John & Mary Ann
Their whereabouts in 1841 & 1861 (perhaps just Mary Ann in 1861 if the burial is correct?)
A baptism/death for John Lyons
Any other info relating to the family, such as a baptism for their son Thomas or where he ended up as he is not jumping out at me after 1851 either. Any other children they may have had etc

Thanks in advance for your help
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Re: Mary Ann Lyons

Postby avaline » Wed Nov 27, 2019 3:22 am

I haven’t found anything conclusive, but a possibility for Mary Ann in 1861 is at Little Paris Street, Lambeth. RG9, Piece 351, Folio 179, Page 61
Mary A Layons(?) 47, Lodger, Married? Dressmaker b Yorkshire.

A possible for Thomas is in the UK Military Deserters for July 1880 – Thomas Lyons born abt 1850 Lambeth. 8th Foot Regiment, No. 1733. He is in the Army Lists for 1871 as stationed in Nusserabad, India and in the 1st Battalion 8th (The King's) Regiment of Foot. The Police Gazette entry says he is a painter by trade and it looks like he disappeared between Warrington & Warley.

There is an 1858 poor law entry in Lambeth on Ancestry for a Mary LYNES, widow of John who died 1 March 1858, so could be the burial you found. They were married at St George’s Catholic Church 10 Oct 1847. I can’t read all of the writing, but it seems they were Irish.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/ ... 3130-00128
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Re: Mary Ann Lyons

Postby helen.norton » Wed Nov 27, 2019 2:44 pm

Thanks so much for taking the time to have a look. I have now found the Mary A. Layons in Lambeth in 1861 that you mentioned, I agree that she is a good possibility. I think it says that she is married? No sign of John or Thomas though.

I haven't an Ancestry subscription at the moment but I will try and take a look at the info you mentioned regarding Thomas, that sounds promising too.

I wonder if the poor law record you mentioned relates to a different couple, the John Lyons burial in Mar 1858 does seem to fit with that. The 1851 census I found doesn't say that John Lyons was Irish, and Mary Ann certainly wasn't. If that marriage date you mentioned in the poor law record is correct then there is a marriage of a John LINES, Dec 1847, St. George Southwark and a potential spouse is Mary Mahoney, which sounds rather Irish to me? I will also try and take a look at the record, see if anything else can de deciphered.

Matthew's will was drawn up on 11th May 1859 and it does mention that specific detail about Mary Ann's bequests being free from the control of her husband, so it would seem he was still alive at that point. His two other daughters, both spinsters at the time, were named as the executrix's. They were both living in Hull, which would seem to fit with Mary Ann returning there by 1871, when she seems to be widowed. None of the other John Lyons/Lyon deaths in Lambeth seem to remotely fit age wise.

Is it worth taking a punt on that Dec 1841, Chelsea marriage I mentioned? The other potential spouses, apart from John Lyons & Mary Ann Stephenson, are Mary Clary, Patrick Danihar, Ann Norah Mahoney & Michael Donoghue, they all have a bit of an Irish ring to them too but I can't seem to narrow down the field at all

Any further help or advice would be much appreciated
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Re: Mary Ann Lyons

Postby ianbee » Wed Nov 27, 2019 4:56 pm

helen.norton wrote:Is it worth taking a punt on that Dec 1841, Chelsea marriage I mentioned? The other potential spouses, apart from John Lyons & Mary Ann Stephenson, are Mary Clary, Patrick Danihar, Ann Norah Mahoney & Michael Donoghue, they all have a bit of an Irish ring to them too but I can't seem to narrow down the field at all

There are two John Lyons indexed on page 45. The actual image shows it's one of the later retypes, but there are four other names transcribed by FreeBMD and findmypast. So theoretically if two men of the same name are on there it doubles the chances that Mary Ann Stephenson married one of them!

A John Lyons, 48, Umbrella Maker, is a lodger in St Pancras in 1861. Other details don't match with 51 though, says unmarried, born Middlesex St. Clements.

Burial of Mary Lyons at Hedon Road, 13 January 1884. Died 9 Jan.
Age 73, Mason Street. Unfortunately no details as to husband in the appropriate column. Names informant.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cat=705074
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Re: Mary Ann Lyons

Postby ianbee » Wed Nov 27, 2019 5:28 pm

Some workhouse admissions for a John Lyons of around the right sort of age (40, 41) in 1859/1860
Cleveland Street Workhouse. That's the Strand Union.
Gives reference to examination - vol 13 page 340
It's buried away on ancestry! Dated 5 January 1859
First bit confirms that he married Mary Ann Stephenson (46), 13 Oct 1841 (in a Catholic church)
Attachments
John Lyons Exam 1859.JPG
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Re: Mary Ann Lyons

Postby ianbee » Wed Nov 27, 2019 5:31 pm

Rest of it
Wife is living apart...
Attachments
John Lyons Exam 1859 ii.JPG
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Re: Mary Ann Lyons

Postby avaline » Wed Nov 27, 2019 6:43 pm

Great find!
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Re: Mary Ann Lyons

Postby helen.norton » Wed Nov 27, 2019 7:56 pm

Wow that's fantastic Ian, some great information here, much appreciated.

So the marriage in Chelsea is probably right then. Mary Ann's mother was Catholic too so that's not a complete surprise. I will order that certificate and hopefully get a father's name for John to help identify a baptism for him.

What a snippet in that examination, he was page to the Marchioness of Lansdowne when he was 9 years of age? Well I never!

The 1861 census you and Avaline found are both looking quite likely now, if they were living apart then him being listed as unmarried is not a surprise. Now what about Thomas? He would only be about 12 in 1861, you would expect him to still be with mother or father really? Was he the army deserter mentioned by Avaline? Could he have been of those boys who joined up after being in an industrial school or something similar?

I'm using Find My Past at the minute and there is a 'T.L' age 12 in what seems to be the N. Surrey Industrial School, Penge, Battersea (attached). The birthplace is blank or does the line mean ditto? Lambeth & Battersea look very close, the parents separated, son in a bit of bother, a possibility maybe?

Mary Ann must have gone to Hull between 1861 & 1871. Her father, Matthew, died in 1861 so perhaps living off her bit of inheritance. I wonder if she really was widowed, can we find John after 1861 at all? That 1884 burial seems to confirm it is the correct death for her, given the address matches the census records. The informant doesn't ring any bells as being part of the family.

Well I'm definitely a lot further on than I was so thanks again for all your help. If anything else pops up regarding any of the family to fill in the missing gaps please do let me know
Attachments
T.L 1861 Census.jpg
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Re: Mary Ann Lyons

Postby ianbee » Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:41 pm

Hi, there is no mention of any children in John's examination record, so I am rather worrying about Thomas. We can take it that Matthew did not give any hint that daughter Mary had any living children?
Don't wish to be overly pessimistic, but there is a death of a 4 year old Thomas Lyons in Lambeth in Dec qtr 1854. No more info at the moment except that the death might have been in October.
It is of course a common enough name.
Ian
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Re: Mary Ann Lyons

Postby helen.norton » Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:22 pm

Hi Ian,

Very good point about the examination not mentioning any children. They've wanted details of his marriage so presumably would have wanted to know about any dependents too? Is that the full record that you posted? Was he in and out of the workhouse a few times in 1859/1860? Thomas dying young could also explain why he is not living with either of them in 1861. I will make a note of that death you mentioned.

Matthew's will doesn't mention any grandchildren, just his 3 daughters, the other 2 were spinsters at the time.

Helen
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