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Mary Ann Lyons

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Re: Mary Ann Lyons

Postby ianbee » Thu Nov 28, 2019 7:53 am

There is a bit more in the middle, which I left out (sorry!), but I'm afraid it doesn't add much. That is all of the exam, and there is not really much about Mary on there.

Ancestry have indexed three adsmissions of John Lyons to the Strand Union workhouse, 5-10 January 1859, 18-24 Oct 1859, 9 Oct 1860 (with no date of discharge on the record).

So if Mary and John were living apart by 1859 we can understand perhaps why Matthew was making sure that Mary's husband couldn't get his hands on her inheritance.
I guess it would be nice if we could work out when John died.

For possible future reference the exam is in London, England, Poor Law and Board of Guardian Records, 1738-1926

Borough: Westminster / Parish or Poor Law Union: Westminster / Record Type: Settlement Papers / Examinations Unsworn, 1848-1859. Then jump to image 2514 (of 3884)
John Lyons Exam middle section.JPG
John Lyons Exam middle section.JPG (43.4 KiB) Viewed 529 times
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Re: Mary Ann Lyons

Postby » Thu Nov 28, 2019 10:47 am

Thanks very much for that Ian. So he had a few spells in there.

I'm not very familiar with the London boroughs but, assuming she was was telling the truth about being widowed in 1871, the only deaths in that area that seem to remotely fit age wise would be:

John Lyons, Sep 1862, Kensington, age 45
John Lyons, Sep 1868, Hampstead, age 48

Can we rule any of those out at all? He doesn't appear to pop up on any census records after 1861 does he, assuming the one in St. Pancras is him? Even though there is a discrepancy with the marital status and birthplace the occupation seems to be a bit of a giveaway.

I'm just looking at the dates and Matthew died in Jan 1861, the will was proved on 27th Apr by the oaths of the two other sisters, but one of them was buried herself on 30th Apr 1861 so she didn't live to get her share at all. So it looks like all the money and so on was being divvied out shortly after that 1861 census where Mary Ann seems to be living alone. Maybe her cue to leave and head back to Hull?

I've ordered up the marriage certificate to see if that helps with a father's name for John. I can't spot him in 1841. There is a Mary Ann Stephenson, 25, Dressmaker, in Lambeth, not born in the County but hard to know if that is her or not. I'll hold fire on the death for Thomas for now in case anything else turns up about that
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Re: Mary Ann Lyons

Postby » Thu Nov 28, 2019 1:03 pm

Further to the 2 deaths I mentioned:

There are a couple of newspaper reports in the West Middlesex Advertiser & West London Observer, dated 16th Aug 1862, from the Kensington Board of Guardians. It has details from the master's journal and records the death of John Lyons on Tuesday the 12th inst. age 45.

Doesn't give any more information but that looks like a workhouse death, albeit a different one to where he was in 1859/1860. Is this a possibility?
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Re: Mary Ann Lyons

Postby ianbee » Thu Nov 28, 2019 5:59 pm

Death of John proving tricky. Re the Hampstead one, there's a burial at St John Hampstead, 28 Sep 1868, of John Lyons, age 48 (died 23 Sep)
My impression, for what it's worth, is that it won't be the right chap. The Kensington one is cetainly interesting, but sadly there seem to be no surviving workhouse records for that period.
Mary says she is widowed in 1871 (relationship wife!) and he is not the John Lyons who died in Hull in 1872 (buried there, was a butcher)
So a bit of an impasse at the moment.
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Re: Mary Ann Lyons

Postby » Fri Nov 29, 2019 9:50 am

Thanks for checking those out. Shame no Kensington workhouse records survived and I'm not sure we can necessarily rely on the information given by Mary Ann in 1871. Looks like I'll probably have to take a punt on any likely certificates to know for certain but helpful to rule those out.

Well thanks again for all your help, a few loose ends to tie up but progressing nicely! Will post again if anything else turns up,

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Re: Mary Ann Lyons

Postby » Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:39 am

An update. Thought it was worth ordering up a few certificates to see if I could complete the puzzle. The marriage certificate is indeed correct: 13 Oct 1841, St. Mary's Catholic Church, Chelsea.

John Lyons, Bachelor, Tobacconist, Residence: 73 Paradise Row, Chelsea. Father: John Lyons, Ironmonger & Mary Ann Stephenson, Spinster, Dress maker, Same Residence. Father: Matthew Stephenson, Farmer

Witnesses: Daniel Lyons (of the same address) and Harriet Stephenson of 10 William Street, Pimlico

1841 Census: 10 William Street, St. Margaret's, Westminster

Mary Ann Stevenson, 25, Dressmaker
Harriet Stevenson, 20, Straw Bonnet Maker

Although it says both were born in the County, I think that could be an error as the address matches up and Mary Ann had a younger sister named Harriet, born in 1817. I have found 73 Paradise Row, St. Luke's, Chelsea in 1841. Head of the house is Gerard Arundel, Tobacconist. That fits with the info given by John but no sign of him there. Unable to spot him anywhere else. Done a bit of digging on this witness, Daniel Lyons. Perhaps a brother?

Baptism transcription from Family Search:

Daniel Lyons, 19 May 1816, Westminster, Parents: John Lyons & Susannah ...inker

Possible marriage for parents?

13 Jun 1813, Marylebone, John Lyons & Susan Tucker

Can't see the images for these, are they online anywhere?

1841 Census: Friar St, St. George the Martyr, Southwark

John Lyons, 50, Ironmongers Shopman, Born: Ireland
Susan Lyons, 50, Born: Ireland
Daniel Lyons, 20, Clerk, Born in the County

1851 Census: 28 Broadley Terrace, Marylebone

Daniel W Lyons, Head, 32, Cashier Clerk to Solicitor, Born: Bermondsey, London
Alice Lyons, Wife, 35, Born: St Marylebone
John Lyons, Father, 68, Widower, Born: Croom, Co. Limerick

Daniel & Alice, minus his father John, are at 10 Exeter Street, St. Pancras in 1861, Solicitor's Managing Clerk, Born Bermondsey. I can't find a baptism for John to the same parents, John & Susannah, but this does look like it could be his family to me?

In terms of the deaths: Doesn't look like I'm much further forward unfortunately

As reported in the newspapers: John Lyons, died 12th Aug 1862, Kensington Workhouse. Age 54. Occupation: Jobbing Gardener. Registered by Elizabeth Mathews, present at the death, looks like she was from the Workhouse

Thomas Lyons: died 11 Oct 1854 at 25 Carlisle Street, Lambeth, age 4, son of John Lyons, Law Clerk, registered by his father.

Obviously I was hoping for John to be an Umbrella Maker. As far as we know he was not a law clerk so not really the information I was seeking for confirmation. Having said that, no law clerks or jobbing gardeners by that name are popping up and his possible brother, Daniel, was a law clerk himself. So I can't discount them for certain, but doesn't quite match up with what we know so far. So I've now managed to trace Mary Ann in 1841, possibly found John's family but the deaths are still a bit of a question mark. If anyone has any further thoughts on the above it would be much appreciated
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