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Bertha Davis/Davies

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Bertha Davis/Davies

Postby GillJones » Sat Nov 16, 2019 4:43 pm

This is a last ditch attempt that maybe someone can shed a light on my elusive great grandmother!

Bertha Davis/Davies was born, according to various census, anywhere between 1857 & 1862. She met George Samuel Probin (he was born 1856 in Birmingham, but was single and living in London in 1881). I have never found their marriage, but they started having a family in 1883 and lived the rest of their lives together in the London area. I haven't found any information on Bertha before the 1891 census, but that's where it becomes extremely confusing!

1891: Bertha Probin, born 1857 in East (looks like Sodia, but must be India), Secunderabad.
1901: Bertha, born 1862 in Brighton, Sussex.
1911: Bertha, married 28 years, born 1862 in Blackfriars, London and her Nationality is Italian!!

As you can see, she doesn't seem to know where she came from! Anywhere between India and London, via Brighton!
Bertha died in 1915.
I can believe that there might have been an Italian connection, because they named their first son Alexander LORENZO Probin (my grandfather) and the middle name certainly didn't come from the Probin family! There was also a Davis/Davies family in London using the first name Lorenzo around the time of Bertha's birth, but there is no sign of a Bertha within that family or an Italian connection. Her maiden name Davis/Davies comes from her children's birth certificates. I did wonder if Lorenzo was a surname, but that wouldn't explain why she used the maiden name Davis/Davies.

I have returned to this problem a few times over the years without success. Any fresh ideas would be greatly appreciated.

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Re: Bertha Davis/Davies

Postby junkers » Sat Nov 16, 2019 8:49 pm

It is East India in the Census. I can't see anything obvious, what did it say on the birth certificates of the children. Have you checked whether they were married in Scotland. I did notice that some Probins from Birmingham were gun-makers, Birmingham was well-known as gun-makers.
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Re: Bertha Davis/Davies

Postby GillJones » Sat Nov 16, 2019 10:06 pm

On all the children's birth certificates, her maiden name was given as either Bertha Davis or Davies. I haven't specifically checked Scotland for their marriage - is there a website where I could do this?
A lot of my Probin ancestors were gun makers. My great x 3 grandfather was called Moses Probin and he was a well-known gun maker in Birmingham. I am also somehow related to a John Probin, who was Gun Maker to the then Prince of Wales in the late 170os, early 1800s.

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Re: Bertha Davis/Davies

Postby junkers » Sun Nov 17, 2019 12:26 am

Scotland's People is the best website for Scottish ancestors, it is a pay-per-view site but searches are free.

https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/search-our-records
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Re: Bertha Davis/Davies

Postby GillJones » Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:32 am

Thanks for the info. I have just done a search on the Scotland's People website and they don't appear to be in Scotland at any time!

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Re: Bertha Davis/Davies

Postby MoVidger » Sun Nov 17, 2019 4:21 pm

What is the Probin's address listed on daughter Daisy Probin's 1883 birth certificate? Just curious as it might provide some insight into Bertha, particularly as she and George don't appear to have married.

Is this your George Samuel Probin?
Birmingham Daily Post 04 April 1878
"George Probin, licensed victualler, Moore's Row, was summoned for illegally trading on Sunday. Defendant, who pleaded guilty, was fined £10 and his license ordered to be endorsed".
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Re: Bertha Davis/Davies

Postby GillJones » Sun Nov 17, 2019 6:27 pm

I'm sorry, but I don't have access to Daisy's birth certificate as I am away from home at the moment, so I will have to get back to you on that one.

It's very likely that the George in the Birmingham paper was my George Samuel Probin! He was a Barman in London in 1881 and then a Licensed Victualler in 1891. Perhaps his brush with the law was why he moved from Birmingham to London! Thanks for the info.

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