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Brickwall for Charles Lester Ivings - Early 1800s

Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:17 pm


I'm tracing the origins of my middle name Lester. I've got as far back as a man called Charles Lester Ivings, born around 1810, baptised 1811 (maybe). I believe one of his parents to be a Lester by surname but I'm hitting problems with records not quite matching and I'm not sure if my leaps of faith are too big.

In 1835 through his marriage record and through later census's (except 1841) I can place him in the Lambeth/Newington/Stockwell/Brixton area of London as a Shoemaker. Things seem to fit together.

Two problems:
1. Where was he in 1841? He had a wife and a 4yr old son but I can't find an 1841 census record for him. But in 1851, he's there with his wife and his now 14yr old son as head of the house in Lambeth.
2. Where is his birth record? The nearest that I have found is an 1811 baptism record for a Charles Ivins Lester. His parents are Simon Ivins Lester and Ann Lester. Not too hard to add a "g" to Ivins but to swap your middle and surname around? Why would that happen? Charles called one of his own children Ann Lester Ivings, supporting my assumption that his mother was Ann Lester.

When I go looking for Simon Ivins Lester, I can't find any obvious birth, baptism, marriage or 1841 census records for him. Ivins I believe is another variation of Evans. So part of me wonders if Evans was transcribed wrongly but I still can't find anything.

I'm wondering if there was some illegitimacy from the birth of Charles. I need to try and track him down in some school or workhouse records to see where he was until his marriage. Would a church allow a baptism from two people who only pretended to be married?

There are other Simon or Ann Lester's born around the right time and in the right location but nothing to connect them at the moment to my missing parents. Any ideas?

Re: Brickwall for Charles Lester Ivings - Early 1800s

Tue Oct 15, 2019 12:46 am

Looking at the baptism, it could perhaps be read two ways:

a) His parents were (allegedly) married and his father is Simon Ivins Lester - OR -
b) His parents weren't married and his father was Simon Ivins & his mother was Ann Lester.

If it was the latter then I would have expected some comment to that effect in the baptism register (ie illegitimate son of...), but whilst that might be the usual way of doing it, it wasn't mandatory.

It also seems unusual that he would name a daughter after his mother, but not name either of his sons Simon, after his father.

Sorry, I'm not much help!

Re: Brickwall for Charles Lester Ivings - Early 1800s

Tue Oct 15, 2019 1:10 am

The only thing I can find in London for 'Simon Ivins' of an age to be Charles' father, is this in 1851:

6 Leicester St, Golden Square, Westminster - HO107/1485/303/35
Simon Evans 69 Shoemaker b Cumberland
Jane Evans 50 b Shifnal? Shropshire
George Evans 15 b London

I think this Simon may have died in 1858, St James Westminster, aged 79

Re: Brickwall for Charles Lester Ivings - Early 1800s

Tue Oct 15, 2019 10:43 pm

I had the same thoughts about no children being named after the father. It's also another co-incidence that Simon Evans is a shoemaker and that's what Charles became. I guess I'm just going to have to research is life and some Ann Lester's to see if anything crosses paths enough to make it likely that they're the ones I'm looking for.

Re: Brickwall for Charles Lester Ivings - Early 1800s

Wed Oct 16, 2019 5:29 pm

In 1837, 1839 and 1841 baptisms they were at Camberwell lane, Lambeth/Brixton

Jane, born in 1839 died in 1843, they were at Coldharbour then.

Is this Pricilla Best? 5th june 1808 st Giles, Camberwell
pricilla best 1808.jpg
pricilla best 1808.jpg (1.44 MiB) Viewed 707 times

Re: Brickwall for Charles Lester Ivings - Early 1800s

Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:14 am

One thing about middle names - they are not necessarily from a family origin. I have one family in Devon. Father was a tailor with his own business , apparently doing well. They had about 13 children. Many of the children had middle names. I spent years trying to establish the origin of the names. I also thought previous family marriages may account for them . Unfortunately I was never able to make such a connection. However I did discover that these middle names were actually the family names of prominent people in the area of his business. I can only conclude that it was good for business.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Who Do You Think You Are? Magazine Forum mobile app

Re: Brickwall for Charles Lester Ivings - Early 1800s

Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:32 am

Camberwell lane isn't there. I've looked for Cordelia Portlock, and 3 others listed as being there on the baptism registers, none come up and the address doesn't either, so must be missing for some reason.

3 children baptised and coming from that address and in 1843 from Coldharbour should be enough proof they were there, but on the 1841 census Simon or Ann could be there also, which is a shame.
Last edited by Templ4r on Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Brickwall for Charles Lester Ivings - Early 1800s

Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:15 pm

Camberwell Lane is there in 1841 - try searching for William Wallace born c1806, Bricklayer (Cordelia Porlock is there too, on the page before William Wallace).

Re: Brickwall for Charles Lester Ivings - Early 1800s

Thu Oct 17, 2019 5:21 pm

Well done Avaline..... Got them... in District 3. He's down as an AG Lab...

Bottom right corner. She's still a laundress.

Probably why The Genealogist didn't find the occupation, but why not the lane?

Found them on the Ancestry census. indexed as Charles Tuenge.

One question though.. who's the 10 year old boy, seeing as they married in 1835. Indexed as Gene..
ivinge 1841 b.jpg
ivinge 1841 b.jpg (594.59 KiB) Viewed 639 times
ivinge 1841.jpg
ivinge 1841.jpg (595.95 KiB) Viewed 639 times

Re: Brickwall for Charles Lester Ivings - Early 1800s

Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:47 pm

Nice one - I had a quick look but didn't see them.

The entry is on the Genealogist as surname TINGEY address 17 WOODS BRACKFIELD, Charles is transcribed as Christopher, aged 20, and Priscilla is aged 70!

So the children are:
Gene (or possibly George) 10
Elizabeth 6
Henry 4
Jane 2

If 'Gene' is really 'George', then I wonder if it's relevant that Simon Evans had a 15-year-old son named George with him in 1851 (Simon was 69, although his wife Jane was only 50)? Either way, his age means he pre-dates Charles & Priscilla's marriage but I can't find a suitable baptism or marriage.
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