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Lewis Morton Simms 2nd. Batt Derby Reg & 76 Regiment

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Lewis Morton Simms 2nd. Batt Derby Reg & 76 Regiment

Postby Suziegee » Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:49 am

Hope someone can help.
I am trying a death for Lewis Morton Simms.
According to records he was in the 2nd Battalion. Derby Regiment and the 76th Reg, in later records he was a bandmaster.
On the 1881 census Lewis was a Sergeant in the 76 regiment he was married with two children. He and his family went to India where another three children were born and one died in 1889.
On the 1891 census his wife Sophia is down as a widow.
We think Lewis may have died in India but have found no record of a death for him. Nor can we find a death in England.
Any suggestions or help in finding a death for him would be much appreciated.
I have added a few records.
Sue
Attachments
Amelia death.jpg
Amelia death.jpg (42.36 KiB) Viewed 256 times
Amelia birth.jpg
Amelia birth.jpg (68.67 KiB) Viewed 255 times
1881 census.jpg
1881 census.jpg (58.55 KiB) Viewed 255 times
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Re: Lewis Morton Simms 2nd. Batt Derby Reg & 76 Regiment

Postby phsvm » Sun Sep 22, 2019 8:58 am

The 1891 census shows Sophia with her children the youngest of whom, Minnie is recorded as being less than a year old and born in Jubbulpore, India.

If you assume Lewis was the father - and he's listed on her baptism record as being - and with her birthdate of 17 April 1890 that narrows down when he could have died.
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Re: Lewis Morton Simms 2nd. Batt Derby Reg & 76 Regiment

Postby AdrianB38 » Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:25 am

Take a deep breath and have a look at the FIBIS web-site https://wiki.fibis.org/w/Birth,_marriage_and_death_records - in particular see the section on British Army. The problem is that a number of these death records exist but simply haven't been indexed. Unfortunately there are so many options that I read these articles, forget the exact cases and then get lost again.

The way to trace his death might be through the Army's regimental Muster Rolls - see https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/british-army-muster-rolls-pay-lists-1730-1898/, in particular the section How to search for musters and pay lists 1878-1898. I've never used Muster Rolls this late so can't offer any advice. They are at TNA at Kew - not online - but in essence you (or someone!) have to look at the Muster Rolls for each quarter in sequence and when he vanishes, well, that indicates he's left the regiment. Not sure if there are casualty records that might give more details.

You need to start from a point when you know where he is. Unless you have a later detailed sighting, I'd start with the reference to 1881 and the 76th Regiment (of infantry). There are 2 tricky bits - it looks to me like he's at some sort of depot or school (of music???) so he might not be on the normal 76th Muster Roll but on a Muster Roll dedicated to that Depot. Secondly, even when you've found him and come forward in time, checking each Roll,you have the 1881 reorganisation to deal with, when the 76th amalgamated with the 33rd (Duke of Wellington's) Regiment to form the Duke of Wellington's Regiment (see Wikipedia) - so you have to alter which regiment you're looking for.

If the later Muster Rolls are like those that I've seen, sergeants are easy to find because ranks are collected together - but people assigned to odd places might have their own pages and not be in with the bulk of the guys.

Good luck should you choose to accept this task!
Adrian
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Re: Lewis Morton Simms 2nd. Batt Derby Reg & 76 Regiment

Postby MaureenE » Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:35 pm

The daughter's 1889 death record on Findmypast unusually does not give any occupational details for the father.

However there is also a GRO record for the same death, AmeliaJ Simms died at Jubbulpore in 1889, page 327 in the database Army Returns-Death-1886-1890

I looked on family relatives.com, but also the record is available on findmypast.

If you obtain this record from the GRO it should give you the regiment, and then you could use this information to look at the Muster rolls at the National Archives, Kew, as Adrian suggested.

Given that the child's death is in the GRO records, it is strange that there is nothing for the father. Lewis Simms. This raises the possibility that he may have left the Army and remained in India, while his wife returned to England but the muster rolls at Kew hopefully would tell you whether he has died.

The FIBIS Fibiwiki page Chaplains Returns has some information about ordering the daughter's record from the GRO.
https://wiki.fibis.org/w/Chaplains_Returns

The 2nd Battalion Derbyshire Regiment was in India at Jubbulpore in July 1890, so possibly this is the regiment to be looking for in the muster rolls.

Cheers
Maureen
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Re: Lewis Morton Simms 2nd. Batt Derby Reg & 76 Regiment

Postby avaline » Sun Sep 22, 2019 2:18 pm

Have you ruled out the LW Simms who died aboard the ship Euphrates in 1890, aged 39?

According to Wikipedia HMS Euphrates was designed for the transport of British troops to India, transporting up to 1,200 troops and family from Portsmouth to Bombay (and presumably back again).
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Re: Lewis Morton Simms 2nd. Batt Derby Reg & 76 Regiment

Postby avaline » Sun Sep 22, 2019 2:32 pm

Reading Mercury 17 May 1890
The Indian troopship Euphrates arrived at Portsmouth on Saturday from Bombay, with time expired men, invalids and drafts. Four deaths occurred on the passage home, including that of Bandmaster Simins (sic) of the 2nd Derby Regiment.
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Re: Lewis Morton Simms 2nd. Batt Derby Reg & 76 Regiment

Postby AdrianB38 » Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:58 pm

Well spotted Avaline!
Adrian
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Re: Lewis Morton Simms 2nd. Batt Derby Reg & 76 Regiment

Postby Suziegee » Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:43 am

Hello Avaline,
Thank you so much. It has to be him. I can see how the spelling could be wrong, Simins instead of Simms.
I have access to the newspapers but Reading does not go up to 1890 only access to earlier papers.
Next thing I will do is have a look on the indexes of deaths.
Really appreciate your help in solving this one.
Regards
Sue
[quote="avaline"][u]Reading Mercury 17 May 1890[/u]
The Indian troopship Euphrates arrived at Portsmouth on Saturday from Bombay, with time expired men, invalids and drafts. Four deaths occurred on the passage home, including that of Bandmaster Simins (sic) of the 2nd Derby Regiment.[/quote]
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Re: Lewis Morton Simms 2nd. Batt Derby Reg & 76 Regiment

Postby Suziegee » Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:48 am

Thank you so much for the reply and help.
It looks like the last reply is our chap.
Next to find the record in the B,D,M indexes and order the certificate from England.
Regards
Sue

[quote="phsvm"]The 1891 census shows Sophia with her children the youngest of whom, Minnie is recorded as being less than a year old and born in Jubbulpore, India.

If you assume Lewis was the father - and he's listed on her baptism record as being - and with her birthdate of 17 April 1890 that narrows down when he could have died.[/quote]
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Re: Lewis Morton Simms 2nd. Batt Derby Reg & 76 Regiment

Postby Suziegee » Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:53 am

Hi,
Thank you for your reply and information.
Muster rolls was going to be my next area of research. Been some years since I had used them. I use to order microfilms through the LDS here in New Zealand but most have shut down now due to so much being online.
It looks like the last reply has to be Lewis. Will now search the indexes for the death then order the death certificate.
Thank you for taking the time to help.
Regards
Sue
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