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Charles Parsons & Parents - Birmingham 1820s/30s

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Charles Parsons & Parents - Birmingham 1820s/30s

Postby Robbie J N » Wed May 29, 2019 4:41 pm

Hello all.
I have been trying to find a birth record, if after 1st July 1837, and a Christening record for a Charles Parsons, born around 1835-39 in Birmingham (St Martin or St Philip). His father's name was John, a gun barrel maker or ribber, and his mother's name was Elizabeth. They lived in Lichfield Street, from at least as early as 1822, and had 7 previous children born between 1820 and 1834, 2 of whom had died young and their names were re-used for younger siblings. I have found the 7 Christening records and 2 burial records for the other children but not for Charles. John, the father, died on 5th February 1838, so Charles's birth has a limit of the end of 1838, though with a possible late registration of Q1 1839.
Also, I cannot narrow down the marriage of John and Elizabeth from the several marriages between a John Parsons and an Elizabeth in the years leading up to 1820, so therefore do not know her maiden name. John's parents were Gad Parsons and Hannah Norris, married in 1787, with John's Christening being in 1789.

If anyone can help with either of these records - Charles's birth/Christening and his parents' marriage, then that would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you for any help you can provide.
Robbie J N
 
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Re: Charles Parsons & Parents - Birmingham 1820s/30s

Postby MoVidger » Wed May 29, 2019 8:37 pm

I know this doesn't answer your query, but there are several newspaper mentions for John Parsons, in case you aren't aware:

Aris's Birmingham Gazette 19 June 1826: "Partnerships Dissolved: Benjamin Parsons and John Parsons, gun-barrel-makers".

Birmingham Journal 09 September 1837: lengthy letter from John regarding the Gun-Barrel Proof-House. It covers two pages.

Birmingham Journal 10 February 1838: brief mention of death for "John Parsons, gun-maker, of Lichfield Street, brother of the late Mr W. Parsons, surgeon, of Newhall-Street. He has left a large family to lament their loss. Mr Parsons had, by his writings, effected many reforms in the abuses of the Proof-House".
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Re: Charles Parsons & Parents - Birmingham 1820s/30s

Postby MoVidger » Wed May 29, 2019 11:35 pm

I don't know if this helps narrow down possible marriages, but in this 1820 marriage record, bride and groom were both widowed:

England, Warwickshire, Parish Registers, 1535-1963
Name: John Parsons
Event Type: Marriage
Event Date: 24 Apr 1820
Event Place: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England, United Kingdom
Residence Place: Saint Martin In Birmingham
Marital Status: Widowed
Spouse's Name: Elizabeth Perkins
Spouse's Residence Place: Saint Martin In Birmingham
Spouse's Gender: Female
Spouse's Marital Status: Widowed
Page: 130

This 1815 record gives the ages and estimated birth years for bride and groom:

England, Warwickshire, Parish Registers, 1535-1963
Name: John Parsons
Event Type: Marriage
Event Date: 05 Mar 1815
Event Place: Warwickshire, England, United Kingdom
Age: 21
Birth Year (Estimated): 1794
Spouse's Name: Elizabeth Rhodes
Spouse's Gender: Female
Spouse's Age: 20
Spouse's Birth Year (Estimated): 1795
Page: 318

Unfortunately, no helpful details in this 1819 record except the Residence Place for both, in case it matches the births of their early children:

England, Warwickshire, Parish Registers, 1535-1963
Name: John Parsons
Event Type: Marriage
Event Date: 23 Mar 1819
Event Place: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England, United Kingdom
Residence Place: St Philip Birmingham
Marital Status: Single
Spouse's Name: Elizabeth Padmore
Spouse's Residence Place: St Philip Birmingham
Spouse's Gender: Female
Spouse's Marital Status: Single
Page: 200
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Re: Charles Parsons & Parents - Birmingham 1820s/30s

Postby Robbie J N » Thu May 30, 2019 12:30 am

Thanks for all the info.
Those were the 3 main marriages I was looking at. I tried, unsuccessfully, to try and find an Elizabeth who had married a Mr Perkins some time prior to 1820 but had no luck.
According to Christening records, the eldest child was Joseph and he was born on 14th May 1820, so I am assuming that the marriage was before then, though not necessarily 9 months or more!
Also, on the 1851 and 1861 census, it states that Elizabeth was born in Stafford(shire), so maybe the marriage was in that county rather than Warwickshire.

Charles's birth year is a bit unclear. His death record from 1894, if I have the correct one, states that he was 59, but the informant was a superintendent at the City Hospital who could not fill in the 'rank or profession' column and said it was 'unknown to informant'. It should have said he was an electro-plater. I was hoping that the informant would have been his sister-in-law or a niece or nephew with the surname Edwards, just to confirm that it was the correct Charles Parsons, as he was living with them in the 1881 and 1891 census. His ages on the census records from 1841-1891 are - 2, 11, 21 32, 44 and 56. That gives a 5 year range for his birth. On the 1841 census the family were still living in Lichfield Street, but had moved to (New) Thomas Street for the 1851 census. That was also his mother Elizabeth's address when she died in 1863.

If the birth dates for Charles's siblings are important, they are as follows (according to Christening records):
Joseph 14-5-1820; Edwin 5-1-1822; Harriet 22-2-1824 (buried 4-11-1824); Harriet 23-2-1826; Mary Ann 7-1-1828; George 22-8-1830 (buried 4-1-1833); George Gadd 29-5-1834.
Joseph and Edwin were Christened at the same time in 1822, when the address in Lichfield Street was first mentioned.
Robbie J N
 
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Re: Charles Parsons & Parents - Birmingham 1820s/30s

Postby ciderdrinker » Thu May 30, 2019 10:45 am

Hi
The 1841 census gives Charles as age 2 years
The only birth reg I can see is Mar qtr 1839 Charles Henry Parsons mother's maiden name Allen.

Unfortunately this doesn't match up with Perkins marriages
Benjamin Perkins and Elizabeth LLoyd 31 Oct 1816 at St Martins.She signs and widow Perkins in 1820 doesn't.
Samuel Perkins and Elizabeth Colledge /Collidge (marriage/banns) 28 Oct 1817 at Handsworth same problem.
Samuel buried St Martins 29 Jan 1818 age 40.

It would be nice to think she was a Miss Allen as there is a possible baptism to Joseph and Mary Allen in 5 Feb 1798

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Re: Charles Parsons & Parents - Birmingham 1820s/30s

Postby Robbie J N » Thu May 30, 2019 11:37 am

Thanks.
Some more info I should have given:
When John died in 1838 he was 50, which does not disagree with his Christening record too much.
When Elizabeth died in 1863 she was 65, giving a birth year of around 1798. On the census records for 1841-1861 her ages were given as - 40, 53 and 62, so not disagreeing too much with her death record.

I have found no mention of Charles having a middle name on any other documents, such as his daughter’s marriage records (Warwickshire and Ayrshire) and death record (Ayrshire), so I tend to not think that the Charles Henry Parsons record is correct, but you never know, it might be. His daughter's birth record has not been found, neither has his marriage to Annie Jane Edwards. (This was mentioned in another thread I started a couple of months ago.) His 2 sons birth records may have some details, but I have not seen those, plus they both died quite young, under a year.
Although, on one of his daughter’s records in Ayrshire, his name was incorrectly given as James, but I think that was just a mistake, the informant listing Charles’s son-in-law’s first name, James (Denham Gibson).
Robbie J N
 
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Re: Charles Parsons & Parents - Birmingham 1820s/30s

Postby MoVidger » Thu May 30, 2019 2:18 pm

According to a London Gazette entry of 1847, Lichfield Street was located in the parish of St Philip. As such, I would be looking more closely at the 1819 marriage to Elizabeth Padmore.
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Re: Charles Parsons & Parents - Birmingham 1820s/30s

Postby Robbie J N » Thu May 30, 2019 4:50 pm

A few more things.
When John's mother Hannah (Norris) died in 1814, on her burial details her address was given as Litchfield (with a 't') Street. So that is an even earlier date for that address. The burial was in Birmingham, St Martin, just like John's burial in 1838. (Though when John's father Gad died in 1823, his address was given as 'Ashsted' or something like that, but still in St Martin.)

Harriet, born and died 1824, and George, born 1830, died 1833, were both buried in St Martin.
Christenings - Joseph, Edwin and George Gadd (1834) in St Philip; Harriet (1824), Harriet (1826), Mary Ann and George (1830) in St Martin.

So there is a mix of St Philip and St Martin over the years.
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Re: Charles Parsons & Parents - Birmingham 1820s/30s

Postby ianbee » Thu May 30, 2019 6:15 pm

MoVidger wrote: I would be looking more closely at the 1819 marriage to Elizabeth Padmore.

In naming their children, John and Elizabeth used the name Harriet twice, ditto George.
John's parents you say were Gad and Hannah
So maybe a possibility, it is also on FreeReg..
19 July 1797, baptism at High Offley, Staffordshire
Elizabeth Padmore, d/o George + Harriet
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JMC8-WYB
(That's the BT, image 473)

also indexed Bednall? I don't have access to the original to investigate why they say that
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QL3J-1FW7

Age would tie in well enough.
Did sister Anabella Padmore marry in Birmingham in 1820?
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Re: Charles Parsons & Parents - Birmingham 1820s/30s

Postby Robbie J N » Fri May 31, 2019 3:04 am

Thanks for that connection.
That seems like a good chance of being right as the age matches.

The Anabella you mentioned, was that marriage to a Thomas Webber Smith? The only other record for an Annabella Padmore lists her parents as Robert and Elizabeth, with a Christening in 1789 in St Mary, Stafford. Probably not a sister, but maybe a cousin?

A George Padmore married a Harriot (with an 'o') Thomas in 1791 in St Mary, Stafford.
Then assuming Harriot was at least 16, therefore searching for a birth/Christening record between 1755-1775, in Staffordshire and surrounding counties, gives only 2 possibilities, one in 1768, the other in 1770, both in Derbyshire. But who knows where she was born, probably not far from where she got married, though you cannot be sure.
A George Padmore was born in 1770 in St Mary, Stafford, to a Thomas and Annabella Padmore. So therefore, the other Anabella who married T W Smith, could be George's niece, via a brother Robert, and was named after her grandmother.
(A Robert Padmore, with parents Thomas and Annabella was born in 1765 in St Mary, Stafford. He possibly married an Elizabeth Thomas in 1784 in St Mary, Stafford. Perhaps Elizabeth and Harriot Thomas were sisters, so Anabella and Elizabeth Padmore were double cousins.)

I will have to investigate some more!
Thanks again everyone.

The Charles Parsons birth/Christening record is still eluding me.
Robbie J N
 
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