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Tue May 14, 2019 11:57 pm
Hello again, I was hoping someone might be able to help me find out what happened to my great-great-grandparents James Murphy and Mary Grimley. They lived in Cockspur Street in Liverpool from when they were married in 1864 to the 1901 census, and James is listed at that address until the 1904-1905 electoral roll. I cannot find a death record for either of them with any certainty. I have compared various death records with burial records to see if that address matches, but none do. (I am assuming they were buried in Liverpool, probably Ford’s Cemetery.) I cannot find them in the 1911 census, having tried on both Ancestry and Find My Past, and have checked with as many of their children’s 1911 census records as possible.
A bit more background information:
James Murphy married Mary Farmer in Armagh in 1858, moved to Dumfries where daughter Catherine was born in 1858, moved back to Armagh where daughter Elizabeth was born in 1860, before moving to Liverpool where daughter Mary was born in 1862. Mary, nee Farmer, died, and so did the daughter Mary at some point, and in 1864 James Murphy, widower, married Mary Grimley, who was also from Armagh and had been the God-mother of youngest daughter Mary. James and Mary (Grimley) then had 5 more children – Ellen (1865), Thomas Arthur (1866), Martha (1868), Mary (1869, died 1870) and Rose Ann (1873).
Catherine married Arthur Grimley, maybe the nephew or something similar of her step-mother, and eventually moved to Armagh. Thomas Arthur married Katherine Milligan. Rose Ann married Patrick Waters.
According to the census records for James 1861-1901, and Mary 1871-1901, they were both born in about 1837, give or take, depending on the census year. James’s ages are given as 24, 35, 42, 56 and 61. Mary’s ages are given as 35, 40, 60 and 64. So there was a lot of variation and inaccuracies.
Without purchasing every single death record for a James Murphy and a Mary Murphy in Liverpool between 1901 and 1911 and beyond, is it possible to find the correct records?
(Son Thomas Arthur had a family plot in Ford’s Cemetery, because 3 of his sons died young, starting in 1901, and 2 more in 1905.)
Thanks for any help anyone can give with this problem.
Wed May 15, 2019 12:58 am
What house number at Cockspur Street did they live at? Have you searched the FMP 1911 Census using the Address tab? The house numbers appear to go from 7 to 34.
This will be a time-consuming exercise, but search the Liverpool Workhouse Registers on FMP. If James or Mary entered the workhouse after 1901 (due to ill health, etc) these online record images contain enough address and relative(s) details for confirmation. Possibly even a date of death.
As you say, the couple used various birth years on the census records. So take that into account when searching the registers.
Wed May 15, 2019 1:39 am
The address is a bit complicated - 2 in 6 Court, Cockspur Street, which can also be written - 6/2 Ct. (The Ct looks like a superscript ‘H’.)
Even though the address is sometimes a bit different on the census records, it is always written the same way on the electoral rolls from 1875 onwards, of which there are at least 9 records on Ancestry, though some are from the same year so might be duplicates.
The address - 1 in 6 Ct, Cockspur St, is on the 1911 census, but I cannot find 2 in 6 Ct.
Having entered in ‘Cockspur’ as the street address, and ‘Liverpool’ as the registration district, there are no James or Mary Murphy names listed in the 100+ records listed for the 1911 census.
Wed May 15, 2019 4:10 pm
Is this entry on the 1911 census worth considering? Cockspur Street and Burlington Street are less than a mile apart:
143 Burlington Street, Liverpool, household Thomas Coulan b Liverpool 1875
James Murphy, lodger, widower, aged 75 (b1836), pensioner, born Ireland
Wed May 15, 2019 4:30 pm
I think the Burlington Street record is not the right James Murphy because some of the crossed out info says he was married in approx 1881 and had no children. That doesn't match with the James I am looking for.
It took me a while to find that record on Ancestry as the surname was transcribed as ‘Marphy’ rather than Murphy, so I will try a few wildcard spellings and see what comes up. (I didn’t think a name like Murphy would be spelled incorrectly, but there you have it!)
So far the most likely record I’ve found is for a Mary Murphy, aged 74, widow, born Armagh, 6 children, 3 dead, 3 living, living with an Ellen Murphy, daughter, aged 47, single, born Liverpool.
Ellen’s age would be out by a year, plus I have only found records for 5 children, but a 6th might be out there somewhere waiting to be found. There is no length of marriage given for Mary.
The address is 3 Holy Cross Place.
However, in the 1871 census there is a family of parents Thomas and Mary Murphy with a daughter called Ellen, aged 8, which could match the 1911 record just as well. Address is 30 Maguire Street, I think.
Plus, Ellen (the correct one) was not living with her parents in the 1881, 1891 or 1901 census records.
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