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Ultimate brick wall: Smith in London

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Ultimate brick wall: Smith in London

Postby DarrenP » Tue Apr 30, 2019 11:45 pm

My 4x great grandfather, John Palmer, married Mary Smith 8 Jan 1771 St Clement Danes. From the marriage licence he was from St Clement Danes and she was from St Michael-le-querne. This latter parish had ceased to exist officially after the Great Fire of London. I understand it was merged with several parishes principally St Vedast Foster Lane. I have accessed St Vedast parish records on but could find no suitable baptism. Any baptisms could be accounted for with matching burials.
Mary was born circa 1744, according to her burial record.
Can anyone help or offer ideas on how to move forward?
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Re: Ultimate brick wall: Smith in London

Postby Mick Loney » Wed May 01, 2019 5:42 am

When the licence stated where she was from, it meant where she was living at rime of marriage, which is not necessarily where she was born. Use a site such as Family Search to look for baptisms in London around the time you’re interested in. Unless her parents were named in the licence, it will be near impossible to be sure you have correct one.
Mick Loney
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Re: Ultimate brick wall: Smith in London

Postby ciderdrinker » Wed May 01, 2019 10:05 am

I have found an entry under England births and baptisms
James Smith s of Hugh and Elizabeth Smith 3.2 1772
St Michael-le-querne and St Vedast
maternal grandfather Archibald Maclane and Mary.
It was registered at the William Salt library non conformist birth certs in 1789.
Witnesses were Mary and Hugh Smith

(James married 31.5.1788 by licence Elizabeth Walsham).

They also had a sons William Arthur Smith 7 Sep 1783 wit Hugh Smith Md and Elizabeth Smith.
William smith 17.10.1769 wit Jane smith and Deborah Simmons St Michael-le-querne
Hugh smith 10.1.1768 wit Mary Smith and Jane Smith
Looks like a daughter Elizabeth inf buried 12.1.1777 St Michael-le-querne Greater London burial index.
Hugh and Elizabeth married 5.10.1765 London St Vedfast Foster Lane.By licence She was of St Dions Backchurch wit Thomas Ashurst Maclane,Jane Smith and Elizabeth Crisp

I know it's not a Mary Smith but they are at St Michael-le-querne around the right time.Could Hugh be her brother?
There are two possible parents for Hugh in London peter and Catherine and Hugh and Frances,they both have a daughter Mary but in 1738.

There is also a settlement cert 1773 for an Elizabeth Smith daughter of John Smith

Summary 17 Nov 1773 Elizabeth Smith (X) sp. Her father John before his death told her he married his wife Ann and served apprenticeship at a trunkmaker corner of St Pauls Churchyard, St Michael le Querne [St Sepulchre, Entry No 497; GL Ms 9095/2]
John was buried there in 1773.

James Smith Will 1737 London, Archdeaconry Court Of London Wills Index, 1700-1807

At least they are something to go on.I'll see what else i can find.

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Re: Ultimate brick wall: Smith in London

Postby DarrenP » Wed May 01, 2019 11:22 pm

Thanks for your replies and interest.
Mick Loney, I understand that there is no guarantee that it might be her parish. I just wanted to supply as much info as I could. I have used familysearch (and others) and there are a large number of Mary Smith's in the London and Westminster area. I have looked at St Vedast if only to rule it out.
Ciderdrinker, that is a very promising find. It could very well explain why her husband, John Palmer, was not in his father's will; his father was a vicar., so a wife of nonconformist background might have been frowned upon.
Can I ask where you found this information? I couldn't see it on Ancestry.
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Re: Ultimate brick wall: Smith in London

Postby DarrenP » Thu May 02, 2019 1:22 am

Obviously I wasn't looking properly last night (my time). I have found the baptisms. Looking further, it seems Hugh did have a sister Mary, as per the witnesses. But she is still Mary Smith in 1772, and it seems the same in Hugh's will of 1789.
That baptism of 1738 with parents Hugh and Frances is worth following up. My Mary had a granddaughter Frances.
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Re: Ultimate brick wall: Smith in London

Postby DarrenP » Fri May 03, 2019 6:07 am

I haven't been able to pinpoint wills or burials for the couple Hugh and Frances. I've only been able to find some more baptisms, including a James. Either it is the same family as the nonconformist baptisms or annoyingly the same naming patterns.
I'm drawn back to the nonconformist family. Having found wills for Hugh Smith father and son, there was indeed a sister and daughter Mary who was apparentlystill single in 1789; whether she was the only Mary in the family is another question.
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Re: Ultimate brick wall: Smith in London

Postby meekhcs » Fri May 03, 2019 10:05 am

My husband’s g grandfather was baptised in a non conformist church at birth. Three years later he was baptised in C of E. Have been unable to find out why but this all took place in Durham where non conformity was prevalent at the time.

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