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Re: Frederick William Smith b.1878 New Cross, London.

Sun Apr 21, 2019 4:56 pm

I’m trying to find what became of Frederick William Smith. In the 1911 census, he is a 33-year-old Motor-cab Driver, living with his wife Lily & one child in Manchuria Road, Battersea. In 1939, Lily is living at 91 Byrne Road, Wandsworth and recorded as a widow.

Married Lily Jukes 1908 Fulham district, London.
Birth: 12 May 1881; JUKES, LILY [MATTHEWS] GRO Reference: 1881 J Quarter in KENSINGTON Volume 01A Page 145.
Death: Probable: Lily Smith 1966 Q3 Wandsworth 5E 619 aged 85.

Known children of Lily & Frederick:
Ethel Lilian Smith b.1909 Battersea.
Doris Enid Smith b.1914 Wandsworth.

There are two civil deaths in London where he can be expected, for a Frederick William Smith born 1878 +/- 2 years. On the CWGC website, there are 22 Frederick William Smith / Frederick W Smith / Fred W Smith / F W Smith deaths listed with no age at death.

The two civil deaths are:
SMITH, FREDERICK WILLIAM aged 45 GRO Reference: 1923 M Quarter in MILE END OLD TOWN Volume 01C Page 349
SMITH, FREDERICK WILLIAM aged 52 GRO Reference: 1932 J Quarter in ISLINGTON Volume 01B Page 207

I strongly suspect that Frederick is one of the 22, but on the off-chance that one of the many readers of this forum has one or other of the two civil deaths in their trees it might save me getting a couple of pdfs – and I don’t really want to wait until 2022 to see if he is in the census!

Re: Frederick William Smith b.1878 New Cross, London.

Sun Apr 21, 2019 7:42 pm

Cachalot6972 wrote:There are two civil deaths in London where he can be expected, for a Frederick William Smith born 1878 +/- 2 years. On the CWGC website, there are 22 Frederick William Smith / Frederick W Smith / Fred W Smith / F W Smith deaths listed with no age at death.

The two civil deaths are:
SMITH, FREDERICK WILLIAM aged 45 GRO Reference: 1923 M Quarter in MILE END OLD TOWN Volume 01C Page 349
SMITH, FREDERICK WILLIAM aged 52 GRO Reference: 1932 J Quarter in ISLINGTON Volume 01B Page 207

The first one looks like the chap at 6 Frimley Street, Mile End, on the electoral register of 1922 with Jessie Smith (Stepney/Mile End/Polling District J)
Only Jessie Smith listed 1923
Ancestry's WWI Pension Ledgers and Index Cards, 1914-1923, has Frederick William Smith, 433416, Labour Corps, died 4 Feb 1923, widow Jessie. Which would tie in.
Possible burial 9 Feb 1923 (Deceased Online)

For the war deaths, as well as the info on CWGC, ancestry (free at the moment) has
UK, Soldiers Died in the Great War, 1914-1919 (may give place of birth and possibly residence)
UK, Army Registers of Soldiers' Effects, 1901-1929 (will have next of kin)

Re: Frederick William Smith b.1878 New Cross, London.

Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:45 pm

Sadly, this record with image could be your chap. It mentions a widow Lily and child Ethel Lilian. As Ian pointed out, it is in the Ancestry UK, Army Registers of Soldiers' Effects, 1901-1929.

Name: Frederick William Smith
Gender: Male
Death Date: 24 Aug 1919
Death Place: Karachi
Rank: Private
Regiment: Army Service Corps
Regimental Number: M2/202232

Re: Frederick William Smith b.1878 New Cross, London.

Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:56 am

Thank you very much ianbee & MoVidger; unfortunately spot on.
I noticed in the ledger entry only one daughter was mentioned. A quick search of the GRO online index brought up a likely death for Doris Enid in 1916.

So regrettably Frederick joins the other 38 soldiers, sailors, airmen and civilians in my family tree who have paid the ultimate price in two world wars. Out of the 3983 people in my tree so far that’s 1%; does anyone else think that’s a fairly high percentage?

Re: Frederick William Smith b.1878 New Cross, London.

Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:29 am

Thirty eight deaths does seem quite high to me, even among extended family.
Thanks to Mo we know that FW died in Karachi in 1919 and that seems to make it even more unfortunate.
FamilySearch may have a record for him in India Deaths and Burials
Frederick William Smith, buried 25 Aug 1919, age 42
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGTL-YY4

The image may be on findmypast...
Ian

Re: Frederick William Smith b.1878 New Cross, London.

Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:50 am

Cachalot6972 wrote: A quick search of the GRO online index brought up a likely death for Doris Enid in 1916.

Died 1 November 1916 at the Children's Infirmary, Norwood.
Image on ancestry.

Re: Frederick William Smith b.1878 New Cross, London.

Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:08 pm

As Ian mentioned, FMP does have two records for the 1919 death. The image indicates cause of death was "abscess of liver".

British India Office Deaths & Burials
First name(s) Frederick William
Last name Smith
Birth year 1877
Death date 24 Aug 1919
Death year 1919
Age 42
Burial date 25 Aug 1919
Place Karachi
Presidency Bombay
Archive The British Library
Archive Reference N-3-122
Folio -
Page 227
Catalogue Description Parish register transcripts from the Presidency of Bombay, 1709-1948

Commonwealth War Graves Commission Debt Of Honour
irst name(s) Frederick William
Last name Smith
Birth year -
Death year 1919
Death date 24 Aug 1919
Number M2/202232
Rank Private
Regiment Royal Army Service Corps
Grave reference -
Cemetery or memorial Karachi 1914-1918 War Memorial
Burial country Pakistan
Link https://www.cwgc.org/find/find-war-dead
War First World War, 1914-1918
Record set Commonwealth War Graves Commission Debt Of Honour

Re: Frederick William Smith b.1878 New Cross, London.

Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:20 pm

Again, thank you folks. Of the 22 children on the same page as Doris's death, most would be curable today. It just shows what the rate of infant mortality was in the bad old days...

Re: Frederick William Smith b.1878 New Cross, London.

Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:11 pm

Found in the papers of Andrew Taylor, 45136 (WO 363)
Dated 19.8.19
Received 22.8.19
Attachments
RASC Smith.JPG
RASC Smith.JPG (63.54 KiB) Viewed 736 times

Re: Frederick William Smith b.1878 New Cross, London.

Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:28 am

Thank you ianbee for that update. I've just received a photo of Frederick's name on the Karachi memorial along with two other views of the memorial from The War Graves Photographic Project - https://www.twgpp.org/ - well worth the £4 paid for them.

I have another relative buried there from WW2 so will be ordering a photo of his grave today as well.
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