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Several Post-1837 Problems

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Re: Several Post-1837 Problems

Postby MoVidger » Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:52 pm

For what it's worth, I try to keep my own threads as concise and succinct as possible. I follow the old TV series "Dragnet" catchphrase: "Just the facts, Ma'am". And I try to state what I'm looking for at the start of my thread (e.g. trying to locate ancestor in a census; elusive BMD record; military records assistance needed, etc).

And it also helps to indicate which websites have been utilized for one's research. Example: Ancestry, Find My Past, Family Search, Scotland's People, newspaper records, etc. :D
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Re: Several Post-1837 Problems

Postby Robbie J N » Sun Mar 24, 2019 6:50 pm

Good points all.

#1&2:
To further clarify my sources - The 1st marriage record for Elizabeth Parsons and James Denham Gibson was an actual certificate ordered from the GRO. The 2nd marriage record for Elizabeth Gibson and William Goudie was from Scotland’s People. The death record for Elizabeth Goudie was from Scotland’s People. The death record for Ann Parsons was a PDF from the GRO.
The church marriage record for William Edwards and Sarah Ann Jones (incorrectly transcribed as Sarah Ann Teres!) was on Ancestry.
The 1871 and 1881 census records for Charles Parsons, and others, were on Ancestry.


#3:
The number of children Catherine Milligan had, was from the 1911 census on ancestry, 12 born alive, 4 living, 8 dead. (At least the numbers add up, I saw one record which had 3+4=6, so I don’t know what was going on with those numbers! Were there a total of 6 or 7 children?)


#5:
The dodgy transcription names for John Peter Nunn (as John Peter Rinn), Mary Nunn (as Mary Rinn), Dorothy Mountfort (as Zora Mogford!), and Florence M Nunn (as Florence M Dun) were all on Ancestry. Better transcriptions were on FMP. The birthplace of Ruslin, Derbyshire (is there such a place?) for Mary Nunn was on Ancestry, and Ruthin, Denbighshire (I think), which makes more sense, was on FMP. That makes sense when compared to Mary’s birthplace on the 1861 census, when she lived in London, which simply lists birthplace as Wales, again on Ancestry.
Hence a bit of research on FMP which led to Mary Humphrey’s possible Christening record in Llanfwrog listing parents as Peter, her 1st son’s middle name, and Eleanor, possibly a link to Eleanor Greaves? But I can’t confirm that record yet.

All I know for any relatives of Mary, was a witness at her 1811 wedding called Ann Humphreys, church marriage record on Ancestry. But after all that, Eleanor may be related to Juliana Joseph, wife of Robert Reece Nunn, as she was born in London just like Eleanor Greaves, according to census records on Ancestry, for both Eleanor and Juliana. And all the relatives I have for Juliana are her father’s name from her church marriage record on Ancestry, of Jacob Joseph, deceased, and a cousin called Eliza Master/Masters who was living with Juliana, Robert and RJMN Sr in the 1851 census, on Ancestry. (I’m assuming she was Juliana’s cousin, not Robert’s, as they were both born in St Anne, Middlesex.) Also, an Eliza Masters was living with a Hannah Joseph in the 1841 census, on Ancestry, so maybe a sister or another cousin to Juliana Joseph, who I can’t find on the 1841 census.


Any other sources you need me to clarify, please let me know.
Last edited by Robbie J N on Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:56 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Several Post-1837 Problems

Postby MoVidger » Sun Mar 24, 2019 6:59 pm

#3 - I'm hazarding a guess here, but the two "missing" births/baptisms you reference from the 1911 census may not have been registered, particularly if the infants died shortly after birth.
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Re: Several Post-1837 Problems

Postby MoVidger » Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:11 pm

Still searching for Annie Jane in the 1861 census, but I've found marriages for the two sisters. Images for both are on Ancestry.

Name: Elizabeth Edwards
Gender: Female
Age: Full
Marriage Date: 20 Dec 1868
Marriage Place: Edgbaston, St Bartholomew, Warwickshire, England
Father: William Edwards
Spouse: William Bedworth

The couple above may have emigrated to the USA shortly after their marriage. There are US census records for them in New York and Connecticut.

Name: Mary Eliza Edwards
Gender: Female
Age: 20
Birth Date: abt 1840
Marriage Date: 28 Jan 1860
Marriage Place: Aston, St Peter and St Paul, Warwickshire, England
Father: William Edwards
Spouse: Frederick Turner

Looks like Mary Eliza and Frederick Turner emigrated to Geraldine, New Zealand. There is a family tree for them on Ancestry with family photos, etc.
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Re: Several Post-1837 Problems

Postby Robbie J N » Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:50 pm

#1&2:
This is amazing, thank you so much. I hadn't really followed through on any of the possible Ann Parsons routes before, as there were multiple possibilities last time I tried. I was just stuck on trying to find her marriage record and her daughter's birth record.
That's 6 generations I can go back on my Birmingham side now!
Last edited by Robbie J N on Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:13 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Several Post-1837 Problems

Postby MoVidger » Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:56 pm

If it turns out the two sisters above are Annie Jane's siblings, you could always try contacting the NZ family tree member on Ancestry. They might be able to fill in some research gaps for you.

England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1995
Name: William Edwards
Death Date: 28 Dec 1863
Death Place: Warwickshire, England
Probate Date: 21 Jan 1864
Probate Registry: Birmingham, England

Edward(s) family in 1861 census (with additional siblings!):

9 Court 1 House, 9, Hampton Street, Birmingham, Warwickshire
Name: William Edward
Age: 47
Estimated birth year: 1814
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Ann Edward
Gender: Male
Where born: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
Civil Parish: Birmingham
Ecclesiastical parish: St George
Town: Birmingham
Registration district: Birmingham
Sub-registration district: St George
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Household schedule number: 42
Piece: 2158
Folio: 7
Page Number: 8

Household Members:

William Edward 47 (Pearl Button Maker)
Ann Edward 55
Joseph Jaques Edward 22
Elizabeth Edward 19
Caroline J Edward 18
William Edward 17 (Bedstead Maker)
Ann Edward 15 (Press Worker)
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Re: Several Post-1837 Problems

Postby Robbie J N » Sun Mar 24, 2019 8:38 pm

#1&2:
I think the 1851 census record with parents William and Mary matches up better than the 1861 record with parents William and Ann.
I had the Christening record, with mother’s name Mary, and the 1851 record already saved in my ‘Shoebox’ on Ancestry, but not the 1861 record.
That must be why I didn’t settle on a particular family when I researched before, all the info I had was a brother and father’s name to work with.
The 1841 record goes with the 1851 record more than the 1861 record.
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Re: Several Post-1837 Problems

Postby MoVidger » Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:37 pm

Robbie - actually the 1861 family above is Annie Jane's. Her mother Mary (nee Clarence) passed away in 1857, and widower William remarried in 1860. The two additional adults in the census record (Joseph Jacques and Caroline) are his step-children.

William's occupation on 1860 marriage record is Bedstead Fitter. So it's your chap. :)

Name: William Edward
Gender: Male
Age: 46
Birth Date: abt 1814
Marriage Date: 23 Jul 1860
Marriage Place: Hockley, All Saints, Warwickshire, England
Father: Samuel Edward
Spouse: Ann Jaques

Now all we have to do if find Annie Jane's marriage (if there was one), and daughter's birth. :D
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Re: Several Post-1837 Problems

Postby Robbie J N » Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:37 pm

#1&2:
OK.
I found 4 children's birth records in the GRO index, but not Ann's (or Annie Jane's).
Mary Ann - 1837 Q4 Birmingham,
Mary Eliza - 1839 Q3 Aston Union,
Elizabeth - 1841 Q3 Birmingham,
William - 1843 Q4 Aston Union.
Mary Ann died in 1838 Q1 Aston Union, aged 0. (I think that must be the same child.)
As you said before, all had mother's maiden name Clarance/Clarence.
Also, the St Philip, Birmingham CofE baptism records for Mary Ann and Mary/Maria Eliza, both give address as Dartmouth Street, from Ancestry. Ann’s gives a different address, and I haven’t found William Jr’s yet.

The death of Mary and subsequent re-marriage of William would have been what threw me off when I would have been researching before.


Thanks again.
Last edited by Robbie J N on Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Several Post-1837 Problems

Postby Robbie J N » Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:17 am

#1&2:
I know this is getting further away from Annie and Charles Parsons’ wedding record and their daughter’s birth record, but there is a slight chance I may have found the marriage listing for Annie Jane’s parents.

William Edwards - 1837 Q3 West Bromwich vol 18 page 479.
Mary Clarence - 1837 Q3 West Bromwich vol 18 page 477.

West Bromwich is reasonably close to Birmingham and Aston, plus Mary Ann was born less than 9 months later, 18th December 1837, so maybe a different parish to their usual one. The only problem is that the page numbers don’t quite match. However, on the Ancestry transcription page, there are 9 names on Mary’s listing, 4 other women and 4 men, and 7 for William’s, 3 other men and 3 women. Odd numbers are unusual as you need 1 bride and 1 groom per marriage, so maybe William should be page 477, or Mary should be page 479. The numbers have been transcribed correctly, so it must be a mistake on the original form. However, Mary’s surname has not been transcribed correctly, it says Clarebroughclarence, and on the form it says Clarence, the Clarebrough bit is on the line above and relates to another person.

What do you think for this being a good contender for their marriage?
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