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Several Post-1837 Problems

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Re: Several Post-1837 Problems

Postby Robbie J N » Sat Mar 23, 2019 8:58 pm

#1&2:
When I said Elizabeth's mother's name was always Annie Jane Edwards, this is based on Elizabeth's 2nd marriage record in 1915 and her death record in 1927, both in Scotland. This was compared to her father's name correctly listed as Charles Parsons on her 1st marriage record in England, also her 2nd marriage record in Scotland, but incorrectly listed as James Parsons on her death record in Scotland. (Scottish records list both parents' names, including maiden surname, or MS, for the mother.) Plus, there is Elizabeth's daughter's name - Annie Jane Edwards Gibson, born 1889 Auchinleck, Ayr, which also lists the date and place of parents' marriage, 21st September 1885 Birmingham.
In 1915, Elizabeth Gibson, nee Parsons, a widow, married William Goudie.
In 1927, Elizabeth Goudie, formerly Gibson, nee Parsons, died, 1st husband - James Denham Gibson, 2nd husband - William Goudie.
Annie may not have been Elizabeth's mother's actual name, maybe just a nickname for Ann, but it says Annie on all records, that I have so far found, with regard to Elizabeth. The death record does just say Ann Parsons, wife of Charles Parsons, electro-plater, not Annie Jane. I haven't obtained the birth records for Elizabeth's brothers, so I don't know what their mother's name is listed as on those.
But I can't find a Charles Parsons marrying an Ann Edwards or Annie Jane Edwards anywhere in the Birmingham or Aston area, or anywhere else, in the timeframe of 1860-1870.

Just to clarify what I've been saying:
Elizabeth Gibson's, nee Parsons, marriage record to William Goudie in 1915 Tarbolton, Ayr, lists her mother as Annie Jane Parsons, MS Edwards.
Elizabeth Goudie's, formerly Gibson, nee Parsons, death record in 1927 Kilmarnock, Ayr, lists her mother as Annie Jane Parsons, MS Edwards.
Ann Parsons' death record in 1870 Birmingham, just says Ann, not Annie Jane.

All the records, only 2, that give the name of Elizabeth's mother, both say Annie Jane Edwards.
That was the name she gave to her eldest daughter, born in 1889 - Annie Jane Edwards Gibson.
I have no other records about Elizabeth Parsons-Gibson-Goudie, other than the 2 Scottish records, that mention any details about her mother. Her 1st marriage record in England only lists her father's name and profession - Charles Parsons, electro-plater.
These are all the things I have had to go on, with my research, hence why I'm stuck at the moment. (Not counting her name in the various census records from 1871-1911, as that wouldn't have any details about her mother anyway.)

I hope this has clarified it, at least that's as much as I can with the info I currently have.

Once again, thank you all for any help you can provide.
Robbie J N
 
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Re: Several Post-1837 Problems

Postby ianbee » Sat Mar 23, 2019 9:53 pm

Robbie J N wrote:I thought that putting all my queries in a single thread might seem less like I was trying to dominate the message boards with all my questions.

In my opinion, for what it's worth, it would have been far better to post your queries separately. Over a few weeks perhaps!
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Re: Several Post-1837 Problems

Postby MoVidger » Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:06 pm

#1 and #2: Don't know if this helps or not, but there's an 1839 baptism for an Ann Jane Edwards in Birmingham. Parents: George and Elizabeth (Betsy) Edwards. The age is off by 6/7 years, but might be worth further investigating. Baptism record is on Family Search.

Name: Ann Jane Edwards
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 30 Jan 1839
Christening Place: SAINT GEORGE,BIRMINGHAM,WARWICK,ENGLAND
Birth Date: 22 Dec 1838
Father's Name: George Edwards
Mother's Name: Betsy

And here is the family in the 1841 census:

Name: Geo Edwards
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1841
Event Place: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
Residence Note: Baggott Street
Gender: Male
Age: 21-25
Age: 21
Birth Year (Estimated): 1816-1820
Birthplace: Warwickshire
Registration District: Birmingham
Parish: Birmingham
County: Warwickshire
Page Number: 14
Registration Number: HO107
Piece/Folio: 1143/26

John Edwards Male 20-24 Warwickshire
Geo Edwards Male 21-25 Warwickshire
Elizh Edwards Female 26-30 Warwickshire
Ann Jane Edwards Female 2 Warwickshire
Elizh Edwards Female 0 Warwickshire

Martha Newman Female 15-19 Warwickshire
Jane Johnson Female 14 Warwickshire
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Re: Several Post-1837 Problems

Postby Robbie J N » Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:23 pm

Replying to Ian Bee:
I totally get what you mean, but a relative started a thread on Catherine McDonnell of Liverpool, and that proved a great help in finding that answer. (I wanted to keep up the momentum.) I guess I have could have steered that thread towards finding the names of her 2 missing children (#3 in this thread), but it seems like a separate thing.
Really, #1 and #2 are related, finding the birth record of one person, plus her parents’ marriage record.
Even, to some extent, #4 and #5 are connected, as Maria Oliver married Robert John MOUNTFORT Nunn (Sr) and was the mother of Robert John MOUNTFORT Nunn (Jr).
I did try and include the various surnames relevant to this thread in the title, but there is a limit to the number of letters you can fit in, it was all or nothing, and as they couldn’t all fit, it was nothing I’m afraid.
When you’ve been stuck on certain things for years, or even a decade, and you suddenly find some really helpful people who can help solve problems, some not just for me, but for other members of my family, then you are eager to make use of that help and get answers as soon as possible. I am really appreciative of the help I have received so far. I guess I’m not patient enough to wait that long!
Robbie J N
 
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Re: Several Post-1837 Problems

Postby Robbie J N » Sun Mar 24, 2019 12:06 am

#1&2:
I think Annie Jane’s father was William Edwards because her brother, also William Edwards, married Sarah Ann Jones in 1869, and listed William Edwards as his father. (I can’t make out William Sr’s profession as it is very faded.) William Jr and Sarah are listed on the 1871 census just below Charles, Elizabeth and Harry Parsons, so next door neighbours. On the 1881 census, Charles is living with his brother-in-law William and his wife Sarah A.
There were some different possible Ann and William Edwards, with father William, on the 1851 and/or 1861 census. I have not narrowed it down to the correct family yet.
Thanks again for the info.
Robbie J N
 
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Re: Several Post-1837 Problems

Postby ksouthall » Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:18 am

ianbee wrote:
Robbie J N wrote:I thought that putting all my queries in a single thread might seem less like I was trying to dominate the message boards with all my questions.

In my opinion, for what it's worth, it would have been far better to post your queries separately. Over a few weeks perhaps!


I agree with Ian. Your first post was so long I only skim read it and decided not to look into any of the cases at all. Sorry but I think a good summary of your research into one question would have been better. Having several questions in one post is too confusing.
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Re: Several Post-1837 Problems

Postby Robbie J N » Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:15 pm

Responding to Katherine Southall - Would 5, or at least 3 if not 4, posts have been better? I’m new to this forum so am trying to work out the ‘invisible’ rules, the dos and don’ts, and I don’t think I broke any of the official rules in my initial post in this thread. I couldn’t list the names in the heading, as there are not enough characters available for that. I thought that giving as much info as possible at the start would help others, and also not lead to getting info I already have, thereby wasting other people's time. I understand that #5 is a really complicated question, that maybe has no answer, such as the families were just friends, but maybe someone knows some more about the ancestry of the 2 families, like they branched off from the same family.
It’s a bit late now to re-post, in separate threads, what I have already posted. If you can help, that’s great. If you are put off by my format, then I’ll have to do better next time. What more can I do now, after the event?
Again, thank you to anyone who can help me with these problems.



(Sorry if I sounded defensive, but I am responding to criticism, for the 2nd time, and I just want to move on.)
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Re: Several Post-1837 Problems

Postby MoVidger » Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:08 pm

Strong possibility for Annie Jane Edwards in the 1851 census. Mother's maiden name could be Clarence/Clarance. GRO online index has births for most of the children below in the Aston and/or Birmingham districts.

Father William Edwards is a Bedstead Maker, similar occupation to son William in the 1871 census.

Name: Ann Edwards
Age: 6
Estimated birth year: abt 1845
Relation: Daughter
Father's name: William Edwards
Gender: Female
Where born: Birmingham
Civil Parish: Aston
Ecclesiastical parish: St Matthew
County/Island: Warwickshire
Registration district: Aston
Sub-registration district: Duddeston
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Household schedule number: 58
Piece: 2061
Folio: 307
Page Number: 11

Household Members:
William Edwards 27
Mary Edwards 32
Mary E Edwards 12
Elizabeth Edwards 10
William Edwards 8
Ann Edwards 6
William Batler 28
Elizabeth Butler 18
Alfred Butler 10 Mo
Last edited by MoVidger on Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Several Post-1837 Problems

Postby MoVidger » Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:13 pm

Possible baptism for your Annie Jane. Father's occupation: Iron Bedstead Maker

Name: Ann Edwards
Age: 0
Birth Date: 22 Nov 1845
Baptism Date: 15 Dec 1845
Baptism Place: Birmingham, St Philip, Warwickshire, England
Father: William Edwards
Mother: Mary Edwards

Here's the same Edwards family in 1841. Occupation: Iron Bedstead Maker
Steelhouse Lane, Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
William Edwards Male 25 1816 Warwickshire, England
Mary Edwards Female 20 1821 Warwickshire, England
Mary Edwards Female 2 1839 Warwickshire, England
Last edited by MoVidger on Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Several Post-1837 Problems

Postby ksouthall » Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:33 pm

Robbie J N wrote:Responding to Katherine Southall - Would 5, or at least 3 if not 4, posts have been better? I’m new to this forum so am trying to work out the ‘invisible’ rules, the dos and don’ts, and I don’t think I broke any of the official rules in my initial post in this thread.

(Sorry if I sounded defensive, but I am responding to criticism, for the 2nd time, and I just want to move on.)


It wasn't meant as a criticism, Robbie, but more as advice for next time. I don't have as much time as I'd like to spend on this forum so lose interest if an initial post is too long and complicated so don't always read it to the end.

If you write separate posts about each person you are researching, with the name, dates and birthplace if it fits, in the title of each post, you may get more responses, as what you were asking would be clearer.
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