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Winifred Ethel Lambert - The Clewer Sisters (Order of St Joh

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Winifred Ethel Lambert - The Clewer Sisters (Order of St Joh

Postby SarahDevs » Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:32 am

Morning all,

I wonder if anyone out there can help me with my brick wall? Details are as follows:

My paternal grandmother never had a birth certificate and knew nothing about her family. I have done my own research and the only official details I can find are her entry notes when she was taken in to the care of the Clewer Sisters in 1921 (they were an order of Anglican Nuns who ran homes for neglected children in various locations in England and Wales). I have attached the transcript of these details which I received from their archive held at Berkshire Record Office.

These records tie in with her memories and known date of birth of 08.04.1911 (although this may be inaccurate if wrongly reported on her entry notes). If her DOB is correct she missed the 1911 census as that was held at the very beginning if April.

The entry notes place her in Tilshead Lodge in Wiltshire. This was a racing stable which fits with Nan's memories of horses. I contacted the school but all records have been destroyed (and as a neglected child I'm not sure if she would have attended school anyway...)

I know all the details from her entry into the Clewer Sisters' care onwards so know where to find her in the 1921 census (at their home in Newport) and also on the 1939 records (in service in Sandhurst, Glos). She married my Grandfather (Francis Charles Devereux) in 1941. She died in 1994.

Somebody has put an incorrect Winifred Ethel Lambert into a tree on Ancestory - this namesake doesn't fit with Nan's story and I should be able to prove it is not her on the 1921 census when she is still with her large family in Gloucestershire.

It is incredibly frustrating! My plan is to wait it out until 1922 and the census to see if this 'J Wilde stepfather' offers any new leads to her mother 'Mrs Wilde' (hoping he hasn't moved on from Tilshead Lodge in the meantime) but it's all a bit tenuous.

Alternatively I could get my DNA results and see if there are any matches. Am a bit in the dark about DNA ancestory so could it be specific enough to say I am related via my paternal grandmother?

Many many thanks for any wise words
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Re: Winifred Ethel Lambert - The Clewer Sisters (Order of St

Postby JaneyH » Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:55 am

A DNA test would certainly give you another avenue to explore while you wait for the 1921 Census to be published. Obviously the success of finding a match depends on relevant cousins also having tested. Ideally you’d be looking for 2nd cousins or half 2nd cousin matches who would help identify your great-grandparents.

AncestryDNA has the largest database of matches worldwide. My paper research was almost exclusively based in England so I’ve been surprised how many matches I’ve found in the USA and Canada - it turns out various ancestors emigrated in the 19th century.

The most powerful analysis comes from linking your DNA results to your online tree (which can be kept private if you prefer).

New clever machine learning techniques used by the big DNA companies mean they can now combine bits of different people’s trees with DNA results to suggest potential cousins.

One word of caution though. While there are regular stories of people ‘breaking down brick walls’ or adoptees being reunited with their biological parents, there are also cases where people discover things that have shocked their families. For example, finding the father someone grew up with was not their biological father.

I don’t wish to put you off, but I feel it’s only fair to put these things on the table before you decide whether to test. Personally, it’s helped me solve a couple of mysteries and it’s been fascinating to connect via email with distant cousins researching the same ancestors. There’s a lot to learn, you’ll still need to follow up matches using traditional research, but it’s very fulfilling.


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Re: Winifred Ethel Lambert - The Clewer Sisters (Order of St

Postby ianbee » Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:23 am

Quick longshot, no Lambert, no J. Wilde, but some strange coincidences.
A birth
June 1911 Southwark 1d 111
Horsham, Ethel Winifred
mother's maiden surname —
(so likely was illegitimate).

A marriage
Dec 1913 Epsom 2a 48
Horsham, Ethel L. C. - spouse Wilde
Wilde, George H. C. - spouse Horsham

From 1919 there are Wilde birth registrations, mother Horsham, in Amersham district (which covers Tilshead)

An Ethel Louisa Horsham was in Newington, Southwark, in 1911
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWP2-HG4

George H C could well be George Herbert Charles Wilde, and a man of that name (or names!) was certainly in the horse racing world.
Possible deaths for him and Ethel in Wallingford district.

EDIT Is it the same Ethel Horsham who was in the Surrey newspapers in 1907? In the second story she had an illegitimate child, could that have been another Winifred, registered Sep 1907, Epsom?
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Re: Winifred Ethel Lambert - The Clewer Sisters (Order of St

Postby ianbee » Sun Mar 10, 2019 12:52 pm

That Bates household in Southwark 1911 is certainly interesting.
The nurse child age 5 months, born Stockwell, could be this one
Dec 1910 Lambeth 1d 366
Swallow, Janet Joycelyn
mother's maiden surname —
(illegitimate, it appears)

Sissy Stebbing, 30, was one of the visitors. Could there be a Stebbing birth in the offing?
There is this one
June 1911 Southwark 1d 108
Stebbing, Cecil Montague
mother's maiden surname —

In the GRO index that's found just three pages ahead of Ethel Winifred Horsham on 1d 111. But of course we don't know if Sissy was the mother, I can't see a baptism.

It's a pity there seem to be no Wiltshire electoral registers for the relevant period online.
George H C Wilde is a Head Groom in Berkshire in 1939.
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Re: Winifred Ethel Lambert - The Clewer Sisters (Order of St

Postby ianbee » Sun Mar 10, 2019 1:08 pm

In 1939 Ethel Wilde has d-o-b of 9 Dec 1893
Death registration makes her older
June 1973, Wallingford 6a 528
Wilde, Ethel Louise C.
born 9 Dec 1887
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Re: Winifred Ethel Lambert - The Clewer Sisters (Order of St

Postby SarahDevs » Sun Mar 10, 2019 1:21 pm

Mind blown, everyone!

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Re: Winifred Ethel Lambert - The Clewer Sisters (Order of St

Postby SarahDevs » Sun Mar 10, 2019 1:24 pm

Janey H thank you for the science and the words of warning. I'm really not that keen on getting my DNA tested so think I will park that idea. We're all pretty much related one way or another, aren't we? Off to explore the other options...

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Re: Winifred Ethel Lambert - The Clewer Sisters (Order of St

Postby SarahDevs » Sun Mar 10, 2019 1:28 pm

ianbee thank you - I spotted Ethel Horsham and the Wilde children and wondered if there was anything there but thought the link too tenuous. You have joined up an awful lot of dots! Worth ordering a birth certificate at the very least, methinks. G Wilde could easily be transcribed J Wilde (I'm quite literate and sometimes get them muddled!) so I don't think it's too much of a stretch of the imagination. Off to do some investigating...

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Re: Winifred Ethel Lambert - The Clewer Sisters (Order of St

Postby SarahDevs » Sun Mar 10, 2019 2:38 pm

ianbee I remember why I had previously disregarded Ethel Horsham Jnr - it's because she pops up in London in later years when I know my Ethel was in Gloucestershire. Too many coincidences not too explore though so once again thank you

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Re: Winifred Ethel Lambert - The Clewer Sisters (Order of St

Postby SarahDevs » Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:20 am

ianbee I've found more on the London Ethel Horsham and it's not the same person as the illegitimate Ethel Horsham - different middle name so finger crossed

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