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Thomas Watts bap 29/7/1798 Thatcham Berkshire

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Thomas Watts bap 29/7/1798 Thatcham Berkshire

Postby meekhcs » Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:20 pm

Hello Everyone

I am hoping that someone out there has access to the pages of the Berkshire Baptism Register, and would be prepared to do a look up for me.

I have found 2 Thomas Watts, born Speen c. 1798. One lived his whole life in Speen, and the other was my 3rd Great Grandfather who married Sarah Traish 4th Nov 1826 in Kingsclere in Hampshire.

I want to try and confirm the baptism of my 3x Gt Grandfather.

I think it took place 29 July 1798 in Thatcham Berkshire, with a birthdate given of 6 June 1798, which I found on Familysearch. There is also an unsourced tree on Ancestry which has this baptism. His parents, if this is correct, would have been Thomas Watts and Ann Tull who married 4 October 1786 in Speen, Berkshire.

All of Thomas and Ann's children appear to have been baptised in Thatcham (according to this unsourced Ancestry tree), where Ann Tull was born, starting with Hariott in 1787 and concluding with Elizabeth in 1801 and including a brother William who married my 3x gr Grandmother Sarah Traishes sister Fannie, also in Kingsclere, so I think I am on the right track.

In Thomas Watts census records he gives his place of birth as Woodspeen or Stockcross in Berkshire, which are near Newbury. Brother William Watts also cites Newbury and Speen as his place of birth on census records

I would like to know a) if the Baptism Register also includes an abode for the Family on any of the baptisms in Thatcham, and if so does it matches the census entries for thomasand William and b) is there a baptism for a Thomas Watts in Speen c.1798 and if so the details.

Thanks in advance

Sally
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Re: Thomas Watts bap 29/7/1798 Thatcham Berkshire

Postby MoVidger » Mon Mar 04, 2019 6:53 pm

Hi Sally - in case you have any early magazine issues of WDYTYR, the March 2009 issue had a Berkshire cover CD which included the Newbury census of 1815 -- a headcount of the village's 5000 residents.

Unfortunately, I didn't begin collecting the magazine and cover CDs until 2010. Perhaps there is a forum member who has this Berkshire CD and can check the census for you (if it will help with your query). :)

Background of 1815 census: Joseph Toomer, three-times mayor of Newbury, appears to have visited every address in the town between late May and early June 1815. He sought the names and ‘supposed ages’ of 5000 residents and the occupation of the head of household, together with servants or apprentices living in. Occasionally additional material was provided, such as date of birth, name of an employer, widowhood, or relationship in the case of stepchildren. Like the 1841 census notes were also made about incapacity like deafness and blindness.

The census includes a neatly drawn map of the town, showing the location of every yard and the location of many houses off the main streets.

Toomer and his family continued to update the census from time to time up to 1878 by adding ages and dates of death of some people, and the names of later residents. Joseph Toomer’s own entry shows that he was an ironmonger, aged 55, living in Market Place. He adds the information that he was born on 3 February 1760, and another hand reveals that he died on 23 December 1853.
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Re: Thomas Watts bap 29/7/1798 Thatcham Berkshire

Postby meekhcs » Mon Mar 04, 2019 7:33 pm

Thank you I do indeed have the CD! I will dig it out. I disposed of all the magazines when we downsized but kept the CDs, just in case.
By 1815 the Watts Family appear to be in Thatcham as Thomas (1811) and Ann(1817) were buried there so I am not sure it will tell me anything,but I will report back.
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Re: Thomas Watts bap 29/7/1798 Thatcham Berkshire

Postby meekhcs » Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:37 pm

Unfortunately the census covers the town only so didn't help me. I think it will be the Parish Registers or nothing.
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Re: Thomas Watts bap 29/7/1798 Thatcham Berkshire

Postby ianbee » Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:35 pm

Not wishing to worry you Sally, there might be a Thomas Watts, born Thatcham, living in Woolhampton in 1851. Age 52, occupation Hostler. Piece 1685 folio 30 page 13. Is Walts on ancestry.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGV1-J5M

Some burials in Thatcham of children who might have been baptized there to Thomas and Ann -
Richard who was born 7 April 1791 and baptized ten days later, possible burial 4 Sep 1791 (infant)
James who was born 17 July 1794 and baptized one month later, possibly buried 15 July 1795 age 1.
There is also a William Watts buried 21 Dec 1802, age 6. Whereas William son of Thomas + Ann was apparently born 6 August 1795, so age would be one year out for him. But close!

Everything kind of suggests that the Thomas and Ann family were domiciled in Thatcham, rather than Speen/Stockcross?
But, yes, the ages of Thomas and William in Hampshire in the census do match up quite well.
You do need that look up in the Speen registers. I've only ever seen BT's of Speen, and it was very hard going trying to read them on microfilm!
Ian
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Re: Thomas Watts bap 29/7/1798 Thatcham Berkshire

Postby ianbee » Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:07 pm

There is also a Joseph Watts born Speen in Kingsclere
1851 he is 60, piece 1684 folio 212 page 8 (is Matts on ancestry, someone has made a correction)
Wife Elizabeth is from Hampshire.
And in 1861 there is a Joseph Watts, 71, lodger with David Watts family, piece 718 folio 66 page 5
Death
June 1869 Kingsclere 2c 136
Watts, Joseph
age 80

Buried Kingsclere, 14 May 1869

David Watts, son of Joseph, married Mary Long at Kingslere, 26 Feb 1838.
and a Mary Watts, daughter of Joseph married William Seward at Kingsclere, 7 Nov 1840.

No idea if these people are connected. Probably not!
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Re: Thomas Watts bap 29/7/1798 Thatcham Berkshire

Postby meekhcs » Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:44 am

Hello Ian and thank you, the more I dig the more complicated it gets! The Family I am looking at has the parents Thomas Watts and Ann Tull marriage in Speen in 1786, but there is also a Thomas Watts who marries in Speen in 1784!

Because there is an unsourced, but fairly comprehensive tree, on Ancestry I decided to try and prove/disprove the tree before I looked further but there is a distinct lack of Berkshire records online.

The only thing I am sure about is that my 3x gt grandparents, Thomas Watts and Sarah Traish married in Kingsclere 4 Nov 1826. The witnesses were William Watts and Mary Ann Traish.

In 1818 William Watts had married Fanny Traish (Sarah's sister) also in Kingsclere. I have looked at Ancestry,FMP,Dusty Docs, Free reg and Familysearch and on none of the marriage records I found were the Father's mentioned. William remarried in 1830 to Jane Woodhouse/Woodhose and again no Fathers are mentioned.

I plan to spend the rest of the day trying to sort these Families out and I will report back, but as you say, I need sight of the parish registers.

Sally
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Re: Thomas Watts bap 29/7/1798 Thatcham Berkshire

Postby meekhcs » Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:38 pm

So I have looked at the Watts Family this afternoon.

Whilst there are marriages and burials online for Speen there are NO baptisms so very difficult to marry up parents and children.

I indentified 6 possible marriages in Speen that could be the parents of My Thomas Watts born 1798.
Rowland Watts and Ann Elgar (w) m. 11 Jan 1773
William Watts and Hannah Sims 16 April 1782
Thomas Watts and Elizabeth Wells 24 July 1784
Thomas and Watts and Ann Tull 4 October 1786
John Watts and Mary Harris 1 May 1788
Daniel Watts and Mary Nicholls 11 Jan 1790

I also found 9 males born between 1786 and 1801 in Speen that could be siblings of Thomas on the 1851 census. Thomas and William, living in Kingsclere Hampshire, I have already mentioned and besides them there were the following:-
Charles bn c. 1798 Speen, a labourer, living in Speen
John bn c. 1786 Speen, a labourer, living in Speen
William bn c.1793 Speen, living Chute Forest Wilts
George bn 1789 Speen, ag lab, living Hampstead Norreys
Joseph bn c.1791 Speen living Frith Kingsclere
Daniel bn c. 1786 Speen, ag lab, living Speen
Thomas bn c.1799 Speen, lab, living Speen

I haven't found certain baptisms for any of them

Returning to the Thatcham Baptisms to Thomas and Ann, I have tried to track the children without much success although Thomas and William appear to be the only male children to survive.

There are so many ifs and buts in all my research that I think the most sensible thing would be to look at the marriage records for Thomas Watts and Sarah Traish, William Watts and Frances (Fanny) Traish and William Watts and Jane Woodhouse/Wodehouse that took place in Kingsclere and Hannington Hampshire, that I mentioned in an earlier post, in the hope that the Father is mentioned on one of them. They will be at Winchester records office. After that I need to look at the baptism registers for Speen and Thatcham at Berkshire Records Office.

But 1st of all I need to speak nicely to my husband...........

Sally
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Re: Thomas Watts bap 29/7/1798 Thatcham Berkshire

Postby ianbee » Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:22 pm

Hi Sally
There seem to be an awful lot of Watts in Speen, and more than a few of them were called Thomas!

meekhcs wrote:Thomas Watts and Elizabeth Wells 24 July 1784

It's possible that this is the couple living at Woodspeen in 1841 (piece 17 book 25 folio 10 page 25), with Thomas aged a rounded 80, and Elizabeth being 75. Thomas seems to have been buried in Speen in 1844, age 85, and Elizabeth in 1843, age 82 (abode for both Woodspeen)

Also in Speen in 1841 is a Thomas (45) and Elizabeth (40) Watts family (piece 17 book 27 folio 10 page 1). And in the household is a Mary Watts, 70. Could Mary be the mother of Thomas?
Elizabeth is a widow in 1851, so the burial at Speen in early 1846 of a Thomas Watts age 52 might be that of her husband. Says abode Stockcross.
There is also a Mary Watts buried Speen in 1848 age 78

Then there is Thomas Watts, 40, and Harriet Watts, 35, and family, in Stockcross in 1841. Piece 17 book 26 folio 5 page 4.
Both of those Thomas Watts families have a youngster called Steward/Stewart Watts. What to make of that I don't know.

As you know, there is very good coverage of Kingsclere and Hannington on FreeReg. So the two William Watts marriages are transcribed on there, as well as that of Thomas to Sarah.
It looks as though the first son of William + Fanny, bap Hannington 1819, was named John, and the
first daughter was Mary in 1821, followed by Elizabeth in 1825.

First son of Thomas was David, then (probably) Anne was first daughter, followed by Jane. The parents of Sarah and Fanny/Frances Traish were Nathaniel and Ann? So, those names do not seem to be a great help for Thomas!
Ian
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Re: Thomas Watts bap 29/7/1798 Thatcham Berkshire

Postby meekhcs » Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:28 pm

Exactly Ian. None of the free reg marriages mention a Father. Neither do any other of the places that I have found the marriages. So I think the only way to move forward is to visit Winchester and Berkshire record offices. Thank you for all your input on this.
Sally


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