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Brick Wall

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Brick Wall

Postby MJW-CLAW » Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:57 am

My husband is on to a none starter with his family tree as he can’t find a registered birth for his father, Arthur Henry John Williams. As far as we know he was born on 10th December 1917 to Teresa Young and Lawrence Williams. They married on 27th January 1917. Arthur has two sisters Audrey and Beatrice, who have births, located on Ancestry to a Young. We have located Teresa and Lawrence on the 1939 register at Wolverhampton Road, Worcestershire with a closed record along side them. Arthur died on 13th Dec 1987 so we sent his death certificate to Find My Past with the hope it was him but this wasn’t to be. However he was in the RAF at the time so he probably wouldn’t be at home. We have obtained his RAF record but this doesn’t enlighten us any further. He did have a passport so we’re assuming he needed a birth certificate to obtain it. We have managed to locate a Catholic Baptism with the help of clergy at Birmingham Cathedral but his name is Henry Arthur John on these papers, but same date of birth. His Mother is listed as Teresa Gertrude Young and Father is Lawrence Henry Williams. We have attempted to locate his birth record with every combination of the three names, we have even sought the help of Dudley Archives but all attempts to locate him have been unsuccessful. Does anyone have any ideas?


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Re: Brick Wall

Postby phsvm » Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:19 pm

A slight tangent maybe but is there any chance he was adopted? Could he have been the son of a family member or friend whose child Teresa and Lawrence agreed to take and raise as their own?

Have you been able to ask either of his sisters or their families if they know anything?
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Re: Brick Wall

Postby sdup26 » Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:07 pm

Bearing in mind the Birmingham baptism you mention, the 1911 census for Drayton, Shropshire, has a Teresa Gertrude Young, b 1889 in London, working as a house servant. Could she be yours? As Arthur Henry was born during WW1, do you know if father Lawrence was in the Forces?
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Re: Brick Wall

Postby elsabels » Fri Mar 01, 2019 7:29 pm

Arthur died on 13th Dec 1987 so we sent his death certificate to Find My Past with the hope it was him but this wasn’t to be.

Firstly we use http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/ certificates cost £9.25

Secondly this maybe the death entry you were looking for
Name: Arthur Henry J Williams
Death Age: 69
Birth Date: 10 Dec 1917
Registration Date: Jan 1987
Registration district: Sandwell
Inferred County: West Midlands
Volume: 33 Page: 1292

Burial Name: Arthur Henry John Williams
Register Type: Burial
Death Date: 13 Jan 1987
Burial or Cremation Date: 20 Jan 1987
Burial or Cremation Place: West Midlands, England
URL: https://www.deceasedonline.co
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Re: Brick Wall

Postby AdrianB38 » Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:34 pm

1. The 1939 on Ancestry for 138 Wolverhampton Road , Oldbury M.B., Worcestershire, has 3 redacted entries for that household - that on FindMyPast has 2 redacted. The 3rd entry below Laurence and Teresa on FMP (which is redacted on Ancestry) is Anthony Shryane, b1919 "junior assistant producer, BBC", so presumably a lodger. That leaves 2 redacted entries who I'd guess may be the sisters, Audrey and Beatrice.

2. If AHJW was indeed in the RAF at this point, then yes, he will not be in the 1939 unless on leave (or billeted in a civilian house??? I can't remember off-hand)

3. I assume that you have AHJW's marriage certificate? You need to be certain what the father's name is on there.

4. Assuming, as I think is reasonable until proven otherwise, that that is the correct baptism for AHJW, how does the date compare to his apparent birth date? If there is a radical difference, then that might suggest something odd. Or it might be that the parents waited for some other reason. Is there an occupation for the father?

5. Another possibility (to put along the unofficial adoption one) is that he was born before his parents' marriage and his DoB "adjusted" to suit.

6. It might be sensible to try to follow Laurence / Lawrence Henry Williams - as was suggested above, he might have been in the Forces which might have had implications for where AHJW was born (though I didn't spot any obvious candidates in ScotlandsPeople or https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/ - plenty of John Williams, etc. Caveat - I'm not well up in searching irishgenealogy.ie - it has oddities. Then again, it is a freeby site.)

In case of desperation - wait 3y for the 1921 Census and see if that has any clues. Possibly not. But you are very right to look for that birth certificate.
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Re: Brick Wall

Postby ianbee » Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:35 pm

AdrianB38 wrote:The 3rd entry below Laurence and Teresa on FMP (which is redacted on Ancestry) is Anthony Shryane, b1919 "junior assistant producer, BBC", so presumably a lodger.

That's Tony Shryane. Illustrious career at the BBC, The Archers and more.
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2003/s ... .suearnold

http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressr ... yane.shtml

Find a Grave
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/11271277
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Re: Brick Wall

Postby MJW-CLAW » Sat Mar 02, 2019 5:18 pm

phsvm wrote:A slight tangent maybe but is there any chance he was adopted? Could he have been the son of a family member or friend whose child Teresa and Lawrence agreed to take and raise as their own?

Have you been able to ask either of his sisters or their families if they know anything?




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Re: Brick Wall

Postby MJW-CLAW » Sat Mar 02, 2019 5:25 pm

Thank you for your reply; it is strange that we can’t locate his birth certificate, adoption was something we had thought about but unfortunately we’ll probably never be able to prove or disprove this and we aren’t in touch with Arthur’s siblings families. We did hope to find out more from one of his Sisters some time ago but when we found her in a care home, she was unfortunately suffering with dementia and was unable to help so we are still unable to ascertain why we can’t locate a birth certificate for him.


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Re: Brick Wall

Postby MayHam » Mon Mar 04, 2019 1:44 am

There was a Lawrence H A Williams who died in Birmingham in the 4th quarter of 1962 age 72.
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