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My Frustrating Brick Wall

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My Frustrating Brick Wall

Postby Yamahaow01750 » Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:14 pm

Hi All

This is my first post & desperate cry for any advise someone may be able to offer in my long suffering research for my 2nd G Grandfather John Evans.

John was Born abt 1849 in Derbyshire & I believe Died before 1916 unknown. In 1871 the Census states him as a Foot Soldier with the 95th Derbyshire Regiment, Reg No. 1446. John Married my 2nd G Grandmother, Elizabeth Lifton ( Born abt 1853, Pembroke Dock) 7th Jan 1879, Athlone Ireland. Johns Father is stated as Francis Evans, a sawyer. I have no further info for Francis. I do not have any Births or Deaths confirmed. Johns Military discharge was 20 Nov 1882 where he then served 5 years Penal Servitude, no further details found. I also believe John to be the same person who served a 168 days sentence 21 May 1875 to 23 Oct 1875 at Bedfordshire County Gaol. John & Elizabeth had 2 Children Frederick born abt 1878 Ireland where I have only the 1881 Census for him & Maude Mary, my G Grandmother born 11 Oct 1879 Co Kildare, Ireland & where I have most info for her.

I am at a complete loss as to where I go from here in my search for John. If anyone is able to offer any advice I should be so grateful.

Thank you
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Re: My Frustrating Brick Wall

Postby MayHam » Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:18 am

I notice in both the 1871 & 1881 censuses, John gives his birthplace as Matlock, Derbyshire (1847 and 1850, respectively).

Found a John Evans registered in December of 1838 in Matlock to Mother Newton, according to the GRO. Could he have lied about his age?

Coincidentally, a Francis Evans married a Jane Newton in Youlgreave, Derbyshire in 1812, according to freereg.org.uk. Don't know if they are the right parents, though?
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Re: My Frustrating Brick Wall

Postby avaline » Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:57 am

You mention the 5 year sentence in 1882 and the earlier one in 1875. The only record I can find that matches is for John Evans alias Jackson or Anderson, for breaking & entering in Middlesbrough. Previous sentences were Birmingham 2 April 1867 for attempted housebreaking 18 months, and 14 April 1875 Housebreaking - is this him?
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Re: My Frustrating Brick Wall

Postby ianbee » Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:10 pm

Another birth?
Sep 1882 Derby 7b 545
Evans, Archibald John
mother's maiden surname Lifton

Death
March 1883 Derby 7b 337
Evens, Archibell John
age 0

Frederick was 4 in 1881, which would make him born well before the marriage of John Evans and Elizabeth Lifton.
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Re: My Frustrating Brick Wall

Postby sdup26 » Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:40 pm

I can't find a John Evans with father Francis, a sawyer. But there's a Francis (lead miner) and wife Ann in Youlgreave, Bakewell, with 7 children in 1841, and in 1851, 8 children including a John b1837.
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Re: My Frustrating Brick Wall

Postby ianbee » Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:16 pm

Yamahaow01750 wrote:I also believe John to be the same person who served a 168 days sentence 21 May 1875 to 23 Oct 1875 at Bedfordshire County Gaol.

Looking at the Bedfordshire Gaol Register database...
http://apps.bedford.gov.uk/grd/

...at military offenders in 1875, they (or most of them) seem to have two records each, one with reference BLARS QGV13/2, and that ref is only for them.
And one with ref BLARS QGV12/2, which seems to be all prisoners.

So, John Evans received from Sheerness, 21/5/1875, military offender, age 26
QGV13/2
http://apps.bedford.gov.uk/grd/detail.aspx?id=35902

Now, on the other record in QGV12/2, John Evans received 21/5/1875, his age is given as 20. But one of those ages could be a misreading from whichever register.
And this chap was a Gunner in the Royal Artillery, reg no. 40672. Offence was Drunkenness.
http://apps.bedford.gov.uk/grd/detail.aspx?id=34020
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Re: My Frustrating Brick Wall

Postby MayHam » Sat Feb 02, 2019 3:15 am

Just to further confuse things, there was a Francis Evans/Crans who married Margaret Seery/Ceery/Geary in St. Peter's Athlone, Roscommon in 1830. They were Catholic, according to RootsIreland.

She *may* have died in 1883, age 80. I'm not sure if he died in 1866, age 67, a farmer.
Francis' informant was James Evans but I have not found a baptism for him.

Francis and Margaret had children:
Mary 1831 (sponsors James & Eleanor Evans)
John or Thomas (hard to read) 1833
Patrick 1835
John 1837
Thomas 1841
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Re: My Frustrating Brick Wall

Postby MayHam » Sat Feb 02, 2019 3:32 am

Also, found it interesting that a Thomas Evans (born about 1848, Matlock, Derbyshire) was living with John & Elizabeth Smedley in Belper, Derbyshire in 1861 as a "son-in-law," should be "stepson."

John Smedley married Elizabeth Evans in 1852 in Belper.

A Thomas Evans was registered in Belper to Mother Walker in 1847.
Siblings included in the GRO:
Mary 1837
Elizabeth 1839
John 1842
Joseph Walker 1843
Samuel 1848-1849

It appears their parents were John Evans, a potter, (born about 1803/6, Belper) and Catherine Walker (born about 1803/6, Belper). They were married in 1825 in Duffield, Derbyshire. They also had Sarah 1828, Frances 1831, and Israel 1835 whose baptisms I cannot find. They are found in the 1841 and 1851 censuses in Belper with the exception of Thomas. I wondered if John, born 1842, might have been born in Matlock if he reported to the army? I can't find his father's death record in case his middle name was Francis.
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Re: My Frustrating Brick Wall

Postby AdrianB38 » Sat Feb 02, 2019 7:19 am

Re son-in-law and stepson. The term son-in-law originally included what we would today refer to as a stepson. Not sure when that meaning fell out of use, but I just found someone writing that they had plenty of examples of the original meaning in various censuses. So it was perfectly fine to use son-in-law for a stepson in the 1861.

Sent from my MotoG3 using Who Do You Think You Are? Magazine Forum mobile app
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Re: My Frustrating Brick Wall

Postby Yamahaow01750 » Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:10 pm

"Thank you "

I am so overwhelmed by the kindness of your replies & wish to "Thank You All" for the time you have given me !

I do feel that a few porky's have been told along the way via both John & Elizabeth. Perhaps John's started when he joined the Army & Elizabeth's when she supposedly remarried to an Albert Shaw. I have been unable to find any proof of this but she did have 2 more Children with Albert.

The fact that a another child may have been Born to John & Elizabeth is both exiting & sad. I am now thinking if connected & if due to this little one's Death, that perhaps this caused the break up of their marriage, as this time during the early 1880's John & Elizabeth appeared to part company.

I now have their Daughter, Maud Mary's Marriage Certificate, 1916. John is stated as a Soldier, deceased.

I am now going to spend my afternoon researching the possibility of all the info you have all so kindly given me
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