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John Jennings

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John Jennings

Postby dick reedy » Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:35 pm

I am researching one of my lines, but want to make sure I follow the correct line.
My Grandfather was John Frederick Jennings, he was born 10th October 1899 in Islington, sub district Highbury. His father was John Jennings (no middle names) and mother was Kate Jennings formerly Rumsey. John (senior) was a Pianoforte maker (journeyman). Although John Frederick was born in 1899 it would appear his parents married 26/3/1917 in Islington Registry Office, living at 27 Milford Road. John's (senior) father is named as Thomas John Jennings (deceased).
When John (senior) died 2/4/1934 his age is given as 66 by son John Frederick. Going through the census's it became somewhat confusing as there appear to be two Thomas John Jennings, also Pianoforte makers. The death of John makes his birth year about 1868, I didn't find any births of John that tie up in 1868, but found a birth 20/7/1867 registered in Kensington, district St.Paul's Hammersmith. His father is Thomas John and mother Elizabeth Jennings formerly Scotten Ref:Sept 1867, Kensington, Vol1a, Page 179. However looking at the census around that time I can't find him with the right age. The Scotten mother record shows a John aged 3 in 1861, but another Thomas j Jennings has a son aged 13 on the 1881 census, making birth date 1868. However his mother is a Mary A Jennings.
Can anyone suggest how I ensure I follow the correct family line. There are a number of T.J.Jennings, but not many are Pianoforte makers that John's birth certificate mentions.
Thankyou from a first time user of this forum.
dick reedy
 
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Re: John Jennings

Postby trace » Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:13 pm

Is the Scotten John really 3 in 1861...or do you mean 1871?

Check all possibilities... and on his marriage certificate how is fathers name recorded for each generation. What is Mothers Maiden name for each birth generation?
Have you checked Probate and Wills?

John Frederick Jennings baptised to John & Kate Maria Jennings Nov 11 1902 Islington
sister Katharine Lilian Jennings baptised on same day.
1911 Census
John 42 b Hammersmith : Kate 36 b Essex : John Fredk 11 : Kate Lilian 8 : Emily 6 : Rosaline 4 : Harry :
1901 Census
John M? 32 b Hammersmith : Kate 27 b Essex : John 1 b Hornsey
trace
 
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Re: John Jennings

Postby avaline » Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:31 pm

It seems likely that John Sr had been married previously and was perhaps a little older than the census & death record suggests, as there is this marriage at Hammersmith on 20 Oct 1889:

John Jennings 23 Bachelor Piano Forte Maker 33 Cardross(?) Street, Father: Thomas John Jennings, Piano Forte Maker
Helena Louisa Thurlow Spinster 23 same address. Father: James Thurlow, Decorator
Wits: JT Thurlow & Mariana Warner
avaline
 
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Re: John Jennings

Postby avaline » Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:09 pm

The Scotten mother record shows a John aged 3 in 1861, but another Thomas j Jennings has a son aged 13 on the 1881 census, making birth date 1868. However his mother is a Mary A Jennings.


The 1881 census shows the wife as Mary Ann, which is different to the mother being Mary Ann.

The two older children in the household seem to have been born to Elizabeth Scotton/Scotten:

JENNINGS, THOMAS JOHN mmn SCOTTEN GRO Ref: 1865 S Quarter in KENSINGTON Volume 01A Page 138
JENNINGS, JOHN mmn SCOTTEN GRO Ref: 1867 S Quarter in KENSINGTON Volume 01A Page 179

The younger children have the mmn Walker:
JENNINGS, ELIZA ELIZABETH MARY ANN mmn WALKER GRO Ref: 1874 M Quarter in KENSINGTON Volume 01A Page 123
JENNINGS, EMILY AUGUSTA mmn WALKER GRO Ref: 1875 S Quarter in KENSINGTON Volume 01A Page 119
JENNINGS, FRANCIS JOSEPH mmn WALKER GRO Ref: 1876 D Quarter in KENSINGTON Volume 01A Page 128
JENNINGS, ALFRED mmn WALKER GRO Reference: 1878 M Quarter in KENSINGTON Volume 01A Page 175
avaline
 
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Re: John Jennings

Postby elsabels » Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:22 pm

avaline wrote:It seems likely that John Sr had been married previously and was perhaps a little older than the census & death record suggests, as there is this marriage at Hammersmith on 20 Oct 1889:

John Jennings 23 Bachelor Piano Forte Maker 33 Cardross(?) Street, Father: Thomas John Jennings, Piano Forte Maker
Helena Louisa Thurlow Spinster 23 same address. Father: James Thurlow, Decorator
Wits: JT Thurlow & Mariana Warner
This couple can be found on the:
1891 census
RG12; Piece: 38; Folio: 108; Page: 2
11 Nasmyth Street Hammersmith

1901 census
RG13; Piece: 39; Folio: 54; Page: 31
42 Westville Road Hammersmith

1911
42 Westville Road Hammersmith

Helen Louisa is variously transcribed as Eleanor /Ellen /Holona?

She died from phthsis and was buried 12 November 1915 at Hammersmith

You may nered to check trade directory to see if there are 2 John Jennings, however I suspect they are one & the same....the 'journeyman' being used for the second family
elsabels
 
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Re: John Jennings

Postby avaline » Sat Jan 19, 2019 12:24 am

The 1911 census for Thomas John Jennings shows him still with Mary Ann, and suggests they married c1872 & had four children. The 1881 census showed a total of six children (2 Scotten and 4 Walker), so this tallies with there being two different mothers.

Thomas John Jennings of 28 Swinbrook Road, Kensington died 11 May 1916 aged 75. Probate to Thomas John Jennings, Engineer & Frank William Storey, Solicitors Clerk* Value £3011 14s 7d

*Frank William Storey married Ellen Hilda Jennings 26 in 1903. She was the daughter of John Jennings, Traveller per her marriage certificate, but her baptism lists him as a Commercial Clerk (mother Ellen, nee Daley). A witness was Florence Annie Jennings.

As its quite a high estate, perhaps purchasing his will will shed some light on things.
avaline
 
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Re: John Jennings

Postby elsabels » Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:18 pm

*Frank William Storey married Ellen Hilda Jennings 26 in 1903. She was the daughter of John Jennings, Traveller per her marriage certificate, but her baptism lists him as a Commercial Clerk (mother Ellen, nee Daley). A witness was Florence Annie Jennings.


This John Jennings is born St Pancras and on 1911 census describes himself as Commercial Traveller for a Music Publisher

Still the music world but very different from a Pianforte Maker

PS This John Jennings b 1858 s/o Thomas Jennings indicated on the 1881 census clerk music publisher
RG11; Piece: 209; Folio: 56; Page: 16

Looks like he is part of the same Jennings family
elsabels
 
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Re: John Jennings

Postby elsabels » Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:22 pm

Timeline
1842 Thomas J Jennings born
1863 Thomas J Jennings married Elizaabeth Scott*n d/o Francis Scott*n a Pianoforte Maker......
1865 Thomas J per GRO s/o Thomas J Jennings & his wife Eliza Scotten
1867 John s/o Thomas J Jennings & his wife Eliza Scotten per GRO

1871 RG10 39 29 22
65 Portland Road
John Jennings married Lodger

1871
RG10 244 17 28
143 Queens cresc
h/hpld
Georgina Rutter - governess
Thomas J 1866
John 1868 your line who married Helen L / Eleanor......

1872 According to 1911 census they were 'married' in this year
1874 Eliza MA
1875 Emily Augusta
1877 Francis Jos
1878 Alfred

1939 Mary
Ann states dob 24 Sept 1849 widow
Emily A 8 July 1875 single
Eliza MA 11 Jan 1874 marries 1910 George Megyeay a Hungarian
elsabels
 
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Re: John Jennings

Postby dick reedy » Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:27 pm

Thankyou for your replies to my request for help to check my family line. I am gradually working my way through your suggestions.
The reply suggesting that the two Johns are in fact the same person has taken me time to look and research. It is quite possible that the two Johns are one and the same person, especially as John, father of my grandfather John Frederick (born1899) only married in 1917, described as a Widower, to Kate Rumsey, if Helena was indeed his first wife she died in 1915.

However what puzzles me is that John is at two different addresses with two different families in both the 1901 & 1911 census returns. This would mean that they are not the same person or one of the partners is listing John being at the house when in fact he was at the other house also being counted.
As you mention both Johns are Pianoforte Makers, both have Thomas John Jennings as a father, whose occupation is Pianoforte Maker. John with Helena is living in Hammersmith. John with Kate is living in Holloway. Children are being born to both families during the same period.

An interesting puzzle, still to be resolved.
dick reedy
 
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Re: John Jennings

Postby ianbee » Mon Jan 28, 2019 9:45 pm

elsabels wrote:Helen Louisa is variously transcribed as Eleanor /Ellen /Holona?
She died from phthsis and was buried 12 November 1915 at Hammersmith

That seems to be her date of death from the Hammersmith Infirmary Register of Deaths.
Creed register has Eleanor Jennings admitted 5.11.15, discharged 12.11.15, Dead
Husband John, 42 Westville Rd

John Jennings does not appear to be listed at 42 Westville Road once the electoral registers resume in 1918.
But his son John James Thomas Jennings (born 1897) is an absent voter at 42 in 1918, and is listed for some years. Also in 1918, Bertie Elmer Bradshaw is one of the names at number 42, and he seems to have married Emily Amelia Jennings (a daughter of John the piano maker) in 1911.

1929 electoral register, 42 Westville Road
Bradshaw, Bertie Elmer
Bradshaw, Emily Amelia
Jennings, Elsie Mary
Taylor, George Milne
Taylor, Edith Julia

That should I think be Edith Lilian Taylor.
There is a 1926 marriage of George Milne Taylor and Edith Lilian Jennings (she has given her father as John James Thomas Jennings! Piano Maker.)

Elsie Mary is probably another daughter of John, likely the youngest child in 1911, age 4, so there were at least three siblings at number 42 in 1929.
The 1939 Register has brother John J T Jennings back at 42 Westville Road! With a family.
Still there are George M Taylor and Edith L Taylor (born 1900)

So with the Jennings family continuing to inhabit that address, what happened to their father John (that is, if he is a different person!)

There are a few electoral register entries for John Jennings in Mayton Street, Highbury, from about 1907?
He is listed as a lodger though, here he is in 1911 at number 70
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=2228170
ianbee
 
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