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Not able to find on 1841 census

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Not able to find on 1841 census

Postby windowframe » Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:43 am

My husband's 3XGreat Grandmother was Virginia Sainsbury Bapt.28Dec 1828 at St Clement Danes,Westminster, her parents are William & Mary Ann Sainsbury, their abode is 14 Little Wild St.
father is Tallow Chandler. Virginia married on 3rd Dec.1848 at St Luke's Chelsea, to George Davis/Davies, she states living at 6 Little Smith St, he living at 1 Marlboro' Rd.
The young couple came to Australia leaving Uk on 16 Dec 1848 arriving on 4 Apr 1849 on the "Mary Shepherd" ship. I cannot find Virginia on the 1841 Census-not able to find who her siblings are or her
mother's maiden name. George Davis/Davies father was Thomas Davis(Dairyman) as on couples marriage cert. I have same problem with George's family on the 1841 census.
Can you help please?
windowframe
 
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Re: Not able to find on 1841 census

Postby ianbee » Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:25 am

windowframe wrote:Virginia married on 3rd Dec.1848 at St Luke's Chelsea, to George Davis/Davies, she states living at 6 Little Smith St

William Sainsbury is given as Labourer on the marriage.
Virginia is age 19, married with parents consent.

A baptism at Christ Church, Chelsea, 29 October 1845
Jane
parents William + Mary Ann Sainsbury
abode 9 Little Smith Street
father a Laborer
ianbee
 
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Re: Not able to find on 1841 census

Postby ianbee » Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:39 am

A double baptism at Christ Church Chelsea, 2 July 1843
George + Elizabeth Sainsbury
parents William + Mary
8 College Place
father a Laborer

That family may be in Chelsea in 1851
piece 1472 folio 248 page 24
2 Pratts Buildgs
William Sainsbury 68 Labourer
Mary Ann 52
Geo 17
Elizth 16
Mary 15

Various birthplaces. But no Jane.
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Re: Not able to find on 1841 census

Postby ianbee » Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:46 am

ianbee wrote:That family may be in Chelsea in 1851

And in 1841
piece 688 book 12 folio 13 page 21
Queen St
Wm Sainsbury 55 Lab, No, not born county
Ann 40 No
Jane 15 (did it originally say 17?), Yes
George 9 Yes
Elizabeth 7 Yes
Mary 5 Yes

No Virginia :(
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Re: Not able to find on 1841 census

Postby windowframe » Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:40 am

Thank you ianbee for the prompt reply, the child Jane born 1845 had died very young, so I cancelled
her out of the picture, it would have been a big gap between Virginia Bpt.1828 to Jane bpt. 1845.
The George/Elizabeth bpt.1843, again wouldn't it be a big gap from Virginia.
On the 1841 census the family in Queen St, sound promising, but how do I know that maybe the Jane
should be Virgina, how can I connect the two people as being the same person? if only I could
find Virgina's mother's maiden name. Even the family on the 1851 census look good, as the Jane is
missing from it, again is it my family, how to prove it?
Again, thank you for your help, can anyone direct me in the right direction where to go next.
windowframe
 
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Re: Not able to find on 1841 census

Postby ianbee » Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:54 am

Hi
It may be that Jane's was an adult baptism. Though it doesn't say so.
1/- (one shilling) seems to be written in the margin.
There is a death...
Dec 1847 Chelsea vol 3 page 49
Sainsbury, Jane
age 23

And a burial at St Luke
15 December 1847
Jane Sainsbury
abode Little Smith Street
age 24 yrs

So a year before Virginia's marriage we seem to have that Sainsbury family still in Little Smith Street.
Virginia died in Victoria in 1886?
Ian
ianbee
 
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Re: Not able to find on 1841 census

Postby ianbee » Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:28 pm

Still not tied in Virginia to those Sainsburys, except for the fact that William and Mary Ann are in Little Smith Street in the mid 40's.
Looks promising, but if so, where was she on census night?
There's also a daughter Harriet, who was in Pancras workhouse at 1841 census time, having just given birth to a daughter of her own (illegitimate).
Harriet may be with her mother in Fulham in 1871. Also there is a younger William Sainsbury.
Her 1841 sworn settlement exam is interesting, I'll attach most of it. Father, William Sainsbury of 15 Queen Street, Chelsea (notice the number 15 against the entry in 1841!) claims to have married Mary Ann in 1815 at St George Hanover Square (no sign of that so far!)

It would be good to see the settlement exam of Mrs Sainsbury, 7 March 1853, Chelsea.
Hopefully survives at LMA, can't find it on ancestry.

Is there anything useful on Virginia's death certificate (if you have it!)
Ian
Attachments
Sett Exam 1841 Pancras.jpg
Sett Exam 1841 Pancras.jpg (219.08 KiB) Viewed 997 times
ianbee
 
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Re: Not able to find on 1841 census

Postby windowframe » Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:13 am

Again thank you ianbee, you are an angel, as you say it looks promising from what you have found.
I do have Virginia's death cert. Unfortunately, it states father unknown(Gainsberry) mothers name
unknown, she died 19 June 1886 in Victoria of Pneumonia, it was her 2nd son who was the informant.
I did find a long time ago, a piece in the Old Baileys central criminal court about a William Sainsbury, he worked for a tallow chandler, comes under reference No.t18391216-325 dated 16 Dec,1839.
I feel that maybe Virginia's father, but again not able to connect him with her.
As I live in Victoria,Australia I am only able to find anything online if it is there.
I'll see what I can find about this Harriet, must admit that 15 Queen st, seems to match. Need to find that
marriage cert. for William & Mary Ann, I 'll see what I can find. I will also check out LMA.
I cannot thank you enough for this help, it has been a brick wall for a long time, so hopefully with
more records being digitised there might be some hope to solve it.
windowframe
 
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Re: Not able to find on 1841 census

Postby ianbee » Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:09 am

Hi
Good news and bad news re the 1853 exam.
It is on ancestry after all, misplaced under Lunatics
(Kensington and Chelsea / Chelsea / Register of Lunatics / Settlement and Relief, 1848-1855)

It was referenced in a later (April 1856) Chelsea exam of Elizabeth Dorman alias Sainsbury, age 23, who had an illegitimate 2 year old daughter, another Harriet.

The earlier exam is even briefer, again saying that Elizabeth was born 30 Nov 1832 in Paradise Street, Britannia Street, St Pancras.
But again, Elizabeth is referred to as Dorman otherwise Sainsbury.
So could it be that mum Mary Ann was originally Dorman? (since I couldn't find a likely marriage to William Sainsbury!)

1861 Fulham
Mary Ann Sainsbury 63, born Surrey Dock head

1871 Fulham
Mary A Sainsbury 73, born St Johns Dockhead

And there is a baptism at Bermondsey St Mary Magdalene, 27 June 1797
(born) June 2
Mary Ann... Dr of Daniel + Mary Dorman, Tobacconist, Dock Head
Attachments
Chelsea Exam 7 March 1853.JPG
Chelsea Exam 7 March 1853.JPG (31.19 KiB) Viewed 953 times
ianbee
 
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Re: Not able to find on 1841 census

Postby ianbee » Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:13 am

And then, lo and behold, a marriage turned up. In 1841!
16 April 1841, St Mary Newington
William Sainsbury, Bachelor, occupation Tallow Chandler
+
Mary Ann Dorman, Spinster

Can you access the full thing on ancestry?
Ian
Attachments
Sainsbury - Dorman.JPG
Sainsbury - Dorman.JPG (50.12 KiB) Viewed 952 times
ianbee
 
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