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Expertise in Indian names anyone?

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Re: Expertise in Indian names anyone?

Postby MoVidger » Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:13 pm

Adrian - apologies re the Methodist Church marriage record. I stand corrected: it does list "America" (not Malta). I must have had Malta on the brain when I found that record. :oops:

I think this family has to be one of the most frustrating and challenging on the forum. What few bread crumbs they left don't add up to a hill of beans. I've never seen so many birth places: England, India, Malta, America. If either Gertrude or Frank were actually born in Malta, what was mother Edith doing there at the time? And her two supposed maiden names of Rennymore and Hayden aren't a help either.

Frank name-checking "South Brighton" as his birthplace has me wondering if he means the "South Brighton" near Adelaide, Australia? Not that I want to throw another global location in the mix.
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Re: Expertise in Indian names anyone?

Postby ianbee » Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:24 pm

AdrianB38 wrote:In the 1911 we have
Kaufman (indexed as Kerman) Joseph married to Lydia Ada, he is b abt 1870 in Germany, living South Manchester (Chorlton on Medlock?), Lancashire.

Now, Manchester Kaufman claims on his 1911 to have been married for 12y to Mrs Lydia Ada Joseph (they have one child). This length of time is a lie (yes, I'm getting blunt!) According to the Ancestry BMD, they married Q4 1902 in Chorlton - just 8y before. He may be protecting his daughter, Kathleen, who is 10 at this point.


Adrian, if Kathleen is the Kathleen Joseph who married Donald Peter McCabe in 1921 (Chorlton-on-Medlock Register Office or Registrar Attended), then her date of birth, according to the 1939 Register, is 11 August 1901.
It seems that Lydia Ada Mitchell was married to George Henry Godber. I mean really married, in 1894, at Chorlton upon Medlock, St Luke. What happened to him?
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cat=837547

And in 1901 her father Thomas Mitchell is with her, as he is in 1911.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X92C-TKL
So far, not seeing a birth reg for Kathleen...
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Re: Expertise in Indian names anyone?

Postby elsabels » Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:19 pm

ianbee

I have the same info ref Kathleen Joseph marriage and agree that Lydia Ada may not have married K Joseph...in fact her husband appears to be in the same 1911 household.

Lydia Ada' 1894 marriage is also on ancestry

I started reviewing the 1911 census and gave up cos life in that household seems to be as complicated ass trying to solve this thread :roll:
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Re: Expertise in Indian names anyone?

Postby ianbee » Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:11 pm

Ah, well spotted elsabels. Wondered where he was in 1911, you are right he is with Kaufman and Lydia!
But it does look as though those two married in Chorlton in 1902, as suggested by Adrian?
It would seem bizarre though, a case of bigamy with the approval of husband?
Ian
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Re: Expertise in Indian names anyone?

Postby ianbee » Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:35 pm

George Henry Godber was a widower on the 1894 marriage record.
So, possibly he is the chap who married Edith Maud Mitchell in Liverpool in 1891?
A newspaper announcement
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QLSH-X64C

From that, Edith's father was also called Thomas Mitchell, could Lydia Ada have been her sister?
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KD69-L13

If so, George and Lydia's marriage would not have been legal at the time.
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Re: Expertise in Indian names anyone?

Postby AdrianB38 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:06 pm

MoVidger wrote:Adrian - apologies re the Methodist Church marriage record. I stand corrected: it does list "America" (not Malta). I must have had Malta on the brain when I found that record. :oops:
....

Your brain overload is forgiven. ;)

MoVidger wrote:... I think this family has to be one of the most frustrating and challenging on the forum. ....

You said it - what was it Philip Chandler said (in a different context entirely) "enough to make a bishop kick in a stained glass window"?

MoVidger wrote:... Frank name-checking "South Brighton" as his birthplace has me wondering if he means the "South Brighton" near Adelaide, Australia? ...

That was my thought as well but I think we'd need to see more mentions of Oz...
Adrian
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Re: Expertise in Indian names anyone?

Postby AdrianB38 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:09 pm

elsabels wrote: ...in fact her husband appears to be in the same 1911 household. ...
I started reviewing the 1911 census and gave up cos life in that household seems to be as complicated as trying to solve this thread :roll:

Yes - I deliberately didn't mention the strange household there with its possibly but not certainly bigamous lodger, but it did move me to my "Turtles all the way down..." :o
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Re: Expertise in Indian names anyone?

Postby AdrianB38 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:17 pm

ianbee wrote:... Have hesitated to mention them, as they shouldn't be relevant at all. ...
Sep 1896 Steyning 2b 270
Samuels, Frank Leslie
mother Potter
...
Sep 1893 Altrincham 8a 17
Samuels, Gertrude Jessie
mother Potter
...
The Samuels-Potter marriage in Toxteth Park in 1882, with a couple of births following, looks to be unconnected.
Ian


That Frank Leslie and Gertrude are interesting.

The 1882 Samuels-Potter marriage does appear to be unconnected - Mr Samuels appears to have been employed by the London & North Western Railway at the time of his marriage and it did appear to be that he is recorded in the Liverpool area with them in 190-something, so he appears to have been in that area all the time.
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Re: Expertise in Indian names anyone?

Postby elsabels » Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:51 am

The Samuels-Potter marriage in Toxteth Park in 1882, with a couple of births following, looks to be unconnected.


This marriage puts the bride as being born 1860!
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Re: Expertise in Indian names anyone?

Postby MoVidger » Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:30 pm

For the 1882 Samuels-Potter marriage, it appears the wife, Elizabeth Edith Samuels (nee Potter) passed away in 1885.
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