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Expertise in Indian names anyone?

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Re: Expertise in Indian names anyone?

Postby AdrianB38 » Mon Dec 31, 2018 10:21 pm

Yes, I had the 1904 manifest - inbound to NY. I also have the outbound manifest from the UK, where Mr Roya is recorded as a labourer!!! What were you saying about job titles? :)

Actually, that's curious, because I thought that both those manifests would come from the ship's purser, so I don't understand the discrepancy. Maybe they don't get written out at the same time, so any updates when the passengers turn up, don't get into the UK's outbound list?

What I didn't know was about the Carmelite Priory - it certainly looked that something like that was the case - but thanks once again for the confirmation. Professor of Philosophy / teacher - pretty much the same thing, once you allow for the grandiose titles...
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Re: Expertise in Indian names anyone?

Postby MoVidger » Thu Jan 03, 2019 7:51 pm

Hi Adrian, there's a brief "human interest" article on Captain Manning and Edith's daughter Ivy featured in the Liverpool Echo (13 April 1926) and also contains a photo of the little lass. It appears that Ivy went on to marry in 1940, then again in 1960 (both marriages in Liverpool).

So if Edith Roya's maiden name was "Rennimore", then why does son Frank state it was "Hayden" on his 1916 marriage record (available on Family Search)? I think this peculiar family enjoyed creating rabbit holes for future researchers. :?

It also boggles my mind that Edith, Frank, and Gertrude are no where to be found in the 1901 census. Even when one searches without a surname or birthplaces. Unless they weren't living together in 1901.
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Re: Expertise in Indian names anyone?

Postby AdrianB38 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:38 pm

Yes, I was trying similar "nothing but the related names" searches of the 1901 earlier today. With similar lack of anything obvious.

If they were outside the UK then that might explain it - I just had to recheck but the 1911 was the first census where Army personnel abroad were enumerated. And if they were on, say, missionary work, then there would be no enumeration in any census. That might also explain why I can't find any shipping record for them entering the UK - no passenger lists were kept for troopships.

As for Frank's mother's maiden name being different to Edith's maiden name.... Well, the charitable suggestion is that Frank gave us Edith's name before she met up with Mr Roya and that's actually her first "married" name. If indeed it was that way round.

We can at least be impressed by the consistency of the stories - Edith's maiden name is the same on her marriage to Ezra as it is when Ivy is registered a few years later. And once Frank has decided that he and the USA share the same birthday of 4 July, then he sticks to it. Not quite sure what it was, but I think it may be his SSDI that contains exactly the same date.

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Re: Expertise in Indian names anyone?

Postby MoVidger » Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:31 pm

Adrian - I've found an interesting Finnish article relating to the couple who married in 1897 (Nagendro Mohon Roy & Milja Karikko). From what I've read, it sounds like this is definitely your mystery chap! :D

The article speculates that he is possibly a Brahmin prince who is a descendant of Raja Ram Mohan Roy who died in 1833 and is buried in Bristol. However, he is also referred to as "nothing but an Indian Hindu and a full pagan, even though he calls himself a professor".

The article has to be translated into English, so if you PM me, I'll send the link. Please note the translated version has swapped the pronouns throughout (she is referred to as "he" and vice-versa).

Update: The couple had two children, both of whom died in Finland: Karl Kobir Roy (1898-1902) and Aina Juliana Roy (1899-1900).
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Re: Expertise in Indian names anyone?

Postby AdrianB38 » Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:57 pm

Crikey and double crikey! :o
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Re: Expertise in Indian names anyone?

Postby ianbee » Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:30 pm

Fascinating topic!
During your searches have either of you looked at a family in Birmingham in 1901? Piece 2833 folio 80 page 27. Though they are probably a very outside possibility. It would mean taking Edith as Ida on this occasion. Her age is sort of OK compared to the 1904 journey, maybe place of birth not what you want though.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSZ7-JRY

Daughters place of birth good, the son's has come up. Is the father here called Kempton?
The first names are obscured by an ink blot on ancestry! So it really needs to be viewed on findmypast, who have done wonders with it.
Sorry if it's a giant red herring.
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Re: Expertise in Indian names anyone?

Postby elsabels » Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:37 pm

Nothing to do with this query BUT this info may be helpful
MANNING John YOXALL Mary Middlewich, St Michael & All Angels Cheshire East 1063/2/281

I looked at the Probate for Ezra Manning to find David William Leslie AKE was granted probate, follow him back to marrying Helen Manning ALDER whose mother was Mabel Manning

Probably a wild goose chase......

RENNYMORE, not many listed on the subsc site, however this may be of interest

Births Mar 1842 (>99%)
Amici Ann Sarah Bridgend 26 311

Marriages Jun 1860 (>99%)
Amici~ Ann Sarah Worcester 6c 410 Scan available - click to view
Amici Annie Sarah Worcester 6c 410 Scan available - click to view
Kennemore John Worcester 6c 410 Scan available - click to view

1861
RG 9 1987 137 43
RENNEMORE John b 1829 Alcester Warwicks Staff East India? Railway ?
RENNEMORE Ann S b1841 Bridgend Glam

Baptism familysearch
Name: George Annie~ Rennemore
Event Type: Baptism
Event Date: 07 Jun 1863
Event Place: Cardiff, St John, Glamorganshire, Wales

I searched familysearch *ennemore Alcester Warwickshire 1800 - 1850 , variations occur but quite a few entry that maybe of interest
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Re: Expertise in Indian names anyone?

Postby MoVidger » Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:03 am

Ian and elsabels - great finds! With the Rennemore baptism, it appears that George Rennemore (also transcribed as Kennemore) died in 1864.

Name: George Amici Kennemore
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 07 Jun 1863
Christening Place: SAINT JOHN,CARDIFF,GLAMORGAN,WALES
Death Date: 10 May 1864
Father's Name: John Kennemore
Mother's Name: Ann Sarah

The Joseph family in 1901 are worthy of further investigation. How odd that the record doesn't appear on Ancestry. I've only attempted a few quick searches, but I don't see a marriage record for "Ida" and Kempton Joseph. Perhaps I've missed it, or it could be that "Ida"/Edith and children have simply taken his name (as they did with Mr Roya).
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Re: Expertise in Indian names anyone?

Postby AdrianB38 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:30 am

I am on tenterhooks here until I can get the time away from domestic duties to have a look at what you have found..... !

I can say that Elsabels is perfectly correct with the probate - Ezra's will was probated by the husband of his niece, so far as I could see. I wasn't intending to purchase that will as it seems unlikely to help with his wife's first family. If I found a will for Edith, on the other hand....

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Re: Expertise in Indian names anyone?

Postby elsabels » Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:46 pm

I have just been relieved of my Nana duties......

ianbee wrote:Fascinating topic!
During your searches have either of you looked at a family in Birmingham in 1901? Piece 2833 folio 80 page 27. Though they are probably a very outside possibility. It would mean taking Edith as Ida on this occasion. Her age is sort of OK compared to the 1904 journey, maybe place of birth not what you want though.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSZ7-JRY

Daughters place of birth good, the son's has come up. Is the father here called Kempton?
The first names are obscured by an ink blot on ancestry! So it really needs to be viewed on findmypast, who have done wonders with it.
Sorry if it's a giant red herring.
Ian


This is ancestry transcription
??Pton Joseph 39
Joseph 28
??Nk Joseph 4
Joseph 7
Jane Lewis 16
Hugo Hugoston 32
Marguerite Hugoston 21
Hans Hugoston 8
Karl Hugoston 6
William Ball 32
Effie Ball 22
Violet Carrington 19
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