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Richard Jones - Shropshire

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Re: Richard Jones - Shropshire

Postby ianbee » Sat Nov 24, 2018 12:00 pm

Where was Phoebe buried, do you know?
On the Richard death certificate (if it is the same one), any exact address(es) for deceased/informant?
Ian
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Re: Richard Jones - Shropshire

Postby ClareBear » Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:37 pm

Hi everyone
I had already sent for the Richard Jones DC for 1890 and I can rule this one out - occupation is given as Grocer, also I have no connection to Onnerley, Staffs with this family. We do have a connection to Ashley in Staffordshire, as his son, also Richard Jones shoemaker, lived and died here (died 1878). However this has not helped me find a death for Richard Jones snr.

The death entry for Myra Jones is interesting in the Newcastle U Lyme district in 1869. Could this be my Mira, was Richard here and then returned to Market Drayton where he married wife number three in 1870? (I also agree that Mira was born in Cheswardine, on her marriage cert her father is Robert Barber so that all fits in nicely)

I have also realised that I need to send off for Phoebe's will dated the 11th May 1886. I have a copy of the first one 8th March 1886, which came in two sections (the second going into detail about her inheritance from her late sister) - I now know that I never sent off for the 11th May Will - this I'll do, maybe this is the key to finding Richard??

Again thanks for everyones help and advice, it's much appreciated.
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Re: Richard Jones - Shropshire

Postby woodchal » Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:27 am

ClareBear wrote:11th May Will


I don't think this part is a will - it says "administration" which I believe means that probate was granted without a will. As you have seen the actual will can you ascertain how there might be things that might not be covered by the will that needed administering by someone other that the executors of the will. I don't see how there would be any estate that would not have been covered by any will

Does the will give any clues as to why the executors were placed with "with certain limitations" or what the "rest of her estate" might have been.

I am intrigued to understand what "under certain specialities" means when Richard Jones boot-maker of Audley is granted probate
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Re: Richard Jones - Shropshire

Postby ClareBear » Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:17 pm

Hello everyone
Just an update - I may be getting closer to Richard Jones death! Today I received a copy of Phoebe's second Will/Probate (in 24hrs - great service!) and this one mentions Richard Jones Bootmaker of Audley. It also gives another clue - Surety is Henry Jones Bootmaker! And Richard had a son with his first wife, named Henry born 1836 who was a shoemaker.
Tonight I have found Henry in Audley, he married in 1869 and on the marriage record it shows him as a Cordwainer and under Father's Name/Occupation is says Richard Jones Cordwainer. I have found a possible death for Richard Jones in 1891 in Audley and a burial - is this my 4 x grt grandfather? (Richard's second wife may have died in Audley - there is a Myra Jones death listed for Newcastle U Lyme?)

However my only question with all this is - on the 1881 and 1891 census Henry Jones is recorded as a Coal Miner (there is a Richard Jones snr living with the family on the 1891 census). On Phoebe's Will in 1886 it records Henry as a Bootmaker - so was he both working in a coal mine and working as a shoemaker? Would he have gone from Cordwainer to coalminer? Do I have the right Henry?? Am I close to solving this mystery after all this time!?

Hopeful ClareBear
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Re: Richard Jones - Shropshire

Postby devonliz » Thu Nov 29, 2018 11:23 pm

I wonder if you have checked the census on both FMP and Ancestry - and whether the transcription is the same on each site.
Is it possible that the handwriting on the original could be transcribed as COALMINER when actually the middle letters are actually RDWA. The two words (cordwainer/coalminer) are otherwise exactly the same.
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Re: Richard Jones - Shropshire

Postby devonliz » Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:26 am

Although, thinking again, I did have distant relative who was a miner/mariner in census and BMD certificates, and I wondered about transcription errors - it turned out he was indeed either according to availability of work.

But bootmaker and cordwainer would seem to be a more skilled occupation than a coal miner, so the latter would be a job for hard times.
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Re: Richard Jones - Shropshire

Postby woodchal » Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:54 am

From my family history I think Cordwainer would normally suggest a higher level of skill, requiring apprenticeship. Whereas a boot maker would have been a lower skilled job, (maybe making miners boots?) that would be more likely to be interchangeable with being a miner.

At the end of the day people did whatever they needed to do to feed their families.
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Re: Richard Jones - Shropshire

Postby AdrianB38 » Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:40 am

Re the difference between cordwainer and boot maker. While the derivation of the word cordwainer is supposed to come from Cordovan (?) leather and therefore indicated an upmarket product, in reality, many places used the words interchangeably. In Nantwich, not far from where we're talking about, the usual word was cordwainer - the usual product, however, was the Nantwich Boot, a sturdy product used in the fields of Cheshire by Ag Labs squelching through clay. The words Shoe or Boot Maker were seldom used in the heighday of Nantwich footwear.

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Re: Richard Jones - Shropshire

Postby ianbee » Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:58 am

Hi
Marriage at Audley, 25 December 1869.
Henry Jones, 30, Bachelor, Cordwainer, father Richard Jones, Cordwainer
+
Ann Kent, 21, Spinster, father George Kent, Collier
residence for both Audley.
witnessed by Samuel(?) Jones, Mary Jones

likely couple in Audley in 1871
piece 2835 folio 17 page 28
Henry Jones Head 30 Shoemaker, born Salop Tilstock
Ann Jones Wife 21 Stafford Audley

1881, Audley
piece 2702 folio 25 page 44
Henry Jones Head 42 Collier, born Shropshire
Anne Jones Wife 35 Audley Stafford
William Jones Son 9 Audley Stafford
Richard Jones Son 7 Audley Stafford
Mary ann Jones Daur 1 Audley Stafford

Birth registrations in Newcastle under Lyme
June 1872, William Henry Jones, mother's maiden surname Kent
March 1875, Richard Jones, mother Kent
Sep 1878, Samuel Jones, mother Kent
June 1880, Mary Annie Jones, mother Kent

Baptisms in Audley
2 Feb 1879
Samuel, parents Henry + Ann Jones. Abode Audley, father a Collier

15 Sep 1881
Mary Ann, parents Henry + Ann Jones. Abode, Werrington, father a Shoemaker

1891, Audley
piece 2151 folio 19 page 34
Henry Jones Head 49 Coal Miner*, born Salop Tetstock
Anne Jones Wife 43 Staffs Audley
William Jones Boarder (Married) 19 Coal Miner Staffs Audley
Richard Jones Father Widr 87 (no occupation) Staffs Audley
Mary A Jones Daur 11 Staffs Audley
Annie Jones Boarder (Married) 19 Staffs Audley
James H Jones Grandson 5 mo Staffs Audley
Hannah Jones** Daur 7 Staffs Audley

* Coal Miner is dittoed from above
** Hannah on folio 20 page 35

So Henry's son William seems to have married to Annie, with presumably James being their child.
Could Hannah Jones, 7, be Emma?
Birth in Newcastle under Lyme
Sep 1883, Emma Jones, mother Kent

ClareBear wrote:Do I have the right Henry?? Am I close to solving this mystery after all this time!?

It looks good to me!
Ian
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Re: Richard Jones - Shropshire

Postby ClareBear » Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:40 pm

Hello
A final update and good news - I have (finally) found Richard's death and that of is second wife Mira.

Richard Jones Cordwainer (Master) died in Audley on the 18th Dec 1891 of Senile Decay and was buried here on the 22nd Dec.
Mira (spelt Myra) died in Audley on the 22nd Nov 1869 and was buried two days later, cause of death Paralysis.
A huge thank you to all who helped and gave advice on this one. It's taken years to research Richard's life (and his family) from birth to death but it's now a complete story.

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