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Israel Munt death 1861 - 1871 brick wall help please

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Israel Munt death 1861 - 1871 brick wall help please

Postby Simon45 » Sat Nov 17, 2018 3:28 pm

Hello
I cannot find the death of Israel Munt

He was married to Phoebe Munt ( ne Hawtrey ) and he is alive in 1861 Census in Tottenham aged 55

Phoebe Munt is a widow in 1871 census in Tottenham

The only record I can find is Israel Munt , died 1857 , Hitchin , Herts, aged 75 , making him too old

I would be very grateful for any help and information
Thank you


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Re: Israel Munt death 1861 - 1871 brick wall help please

Postby sdup26 » Mon Nov 19, 2018 6:51 pm

Like you, I can't find a death entry for Israel, so this is straw-clutching, but did Phoebe tell the 1871 census taker she was a widow because he'd left her?
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Re: Israel Munt death 1861 - 1871 brick wall help please

Postby Simon45 » Mon Nov 19, 2018 7:17 pm

Hi
I see that's a possibility
I'll try and look for Israels death after 1861

Thanks


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Re: Israel Munt death 1861 - 1871 brick wall help please

Postby Simon45 » Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:16 pm

I'm still trying to find Israels death .......


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Re: Israel Munt death 1861 - 1871 brick wall help please

Postby elsabels » Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:06 pm

Eliminating
Have you seen this entry? Likely to be the Israel died 1857
1851
Class: HO107; Piece: 1709; Folio: 165; Page: 9;
Isarael Munt 68 (1783) Bricklayer Weston
Mary Munt 34
George Munt 31
Ann Munt 22


Name: Israel Munt
Registration Year: 1857
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration district: Hitchin Hertfordshire
Volume: 3a Page: 149
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Re: Israel Munt death 1861 - 1871 brick wall help please

Postby gemmalrf » Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:48 am

Wow, this one's a toughie!

Israel’s daughter Mary Ann Munt, wed on 2 Dec 1866 at All Hallows Tottenham. She names her father as Israel Munt, bricklayer. It doesn’t indicate he was deceased at the time of her marriage but it’s possible this church didn’t record that sort of detail, or they didn’t always record it (it appears in a few entries in the registers here and there) Phoebe Munt marries at St. Mary Whitechapel on 28 Jun 1863 and the same applies here too.

A marriage certificate for Ann Merrit Munt, getting married at the parish church in Tottenham on 4 Jul 1880 DOES confirm her father Israel Munt, bricklayer, is deceased. I know this is less helpful as its after the 1871 census but at least it gives you a firm end date incase he and his wife did separate.

If he has any other kids, you may want to check their marriage certs too to see if any of those note him as deceased which would you help you narrow down your time frame.

If any of his adult children predeceased him, they may have left something for him in their will (if they had one)

You could try sifting through the burial registers for the parish church too. A search on Ancestry doesn’t bring anything up but it’s possible he’s there and has been mistranscribed.
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Re: Israel Munt death 1861 - 1871 brick wall help please

Postby Simon45 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:44 am

Hi
Thanks for all the extra information

Phoebe Munt was a widow when she died in 1878
- Photo enclosed of death certificate

Phoebe was also a widow in the 1871 census

This is a tough one to crack

Many thanks for all the help

Simon
IMG_0053.JPG
IMG_0053.JPG (710.11 KiB) Viewed 1266 times



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Re: Israel Munt death 1861 - 1871 brick wall help please

Postby sdup26 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:04 pm

Not quite - Phoebe said she was a widow, which may not be the same as actually being one. So if Israel can't be found in death records, was he entered somewhere else under his initials? In the 1871 census for Friern Barnet Hospital, Middlesex, there's a male listed as 'I M' born 1806.
Last edited by sdup26 on Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Israel Munt death 1861 - 1871 brick wall help please

Postby Simon45 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:19 pm

Hi
That sounds interesting
Please can you send me the 1871 census image to show I M

Thanks


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Re: Israel Munt death 1861 - 1871 brick wall help please

Postby gemmalrf » Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:13 am

Another possible reason for why you've been unable to find Israel is that he isn't actually in the GRO indexes. Because of the very long-winded and manual process required to make them, there's a chance that his entry was missed out at one of the many stages between local registration and the national indexes being published.

You may want to check in with Enfield Council to see if they can help with finding him in their own local indexes though there will be a fee and they can't guarantee they'll be successful. Finding an entry for him in the burial registers would give them more information that can help with their search. It may be that he and his wife were buried at the same church, particularly if she didn't move too far so you could start there? It's also possible they were buried separately too, especially if a church's burial grounds were full.
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