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George William Samwell’s Parents

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George William Samwell’s Parents

Postby Eleanorsamwellchow » Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:49 am

I wonder if anyone can help?

I have traced my ancestors back to George William Samuel (Samwell) who was born in Daventry Northamptonshire in 1828. I have found a baptising record (3rd October 1828) which shows that is father was James Samuel and mother Sarah Samuel. When George married his first wife , Charlotte Saunders his father on the marriage certificate is said to be James. When George married his second wife Susan Harwood his father is said to be David. I am wondering whether I have got two different families mixed up? If I follow the David line it seems to be for a David Dominick Samuel born 6 May 1797 to a Mary and Caleb Samuel.

I know the George Samuel’s mother was called Sarah as he is living with her in 1841 in Daventry. My ancestors I have found so far are as follows:-
Joseph Samuel 1891 in Holborn
His son who is my ancestor is James David Samuel born26 March 1863 in Marylebone. Any help on who George’s father was would be gratelly appreciated.
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Re: George William Samwell’s Parents

Postby sdup26 » Fri Nov 02, 2018 5:53 pm

Could you clarify a couple of things? You say ancestors you've found so far are Joseph Samuel born 1891, then you say, 'his son, who is my ancestor, is James David Samuel born 1863, Marylebone.' James David born 1863 can't be the son of Joseph Samuel born 1891. And can you please say how they're connected to George William?

Incidentally, you say you know that George's mother was Sarah, because he was living with her in 1841. While you may be right, unfortunately, you can't assume relationships from the 1841 census, as none are stated on it, unlike the later censuses. In 1851, widowed Sarah lived with daughter Clara, born 1833, and two lodgers. All were connected with the shoe industry, so it's very likely that James was too, if this was indeed his family. Have you searched for the death of a James Samwell (or surname variants) around 1833?
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Re: George William Samwell’s Parents

Postby Eleanorsamwellchow » Fri Nov 02, 2018 6:26 pm

Hi

Sorry, What I mean to say is that I think Joseph Samuel (Samwell) born 1891 was the son of Joseph David Samwell born 1863. Note taken re the 1841 census and so any help is appreciated.

I am trying to figure how the ancestors line of Joseph Samuel born 1891 in Holborn London and married Elizabeth LePere. I believe Joseph’s (1891) father was Joseph David Samuel (1863) whose father I believe is George William Samwell (1828).

Thanks
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Re: George William Samwell’s Parents

Postby sdup26 » Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:03 pm

Thanks for that.
But just on the George Samwell angle, and the point you made about finding a 'David' in the mix, raising the possibility of following the wrong line - in 1841, George is with assumed siblings David and Clara. David Samwell was baptised in Daventry Oct 1830, son of David and Sarah, father's occupation cordwainer. Hannah Clara Samwell was baptised in Daventry July 1833, daughter of David and Sarah, father's occupation cordwainer.
David Samwell, widower, married Sarah Mann at St Sepulchre, Northampton, Oct 1824. He was born 1797, and died 1834. She was born 1797, parents Caleb Mann and Mary Catherine, and she died 1863.
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Re: George William Samwell’s Parents

Postby Eleanorsamwellchow » Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:23 pm

Thanks for this. I found George William Samwell’s baptising which said his father was James and mother Sarah. Then when George married Charlotte Elizabeth Porter (nee Saunders) which said his father is James with a witnesses of David Samwell. However, when George married Susan Harwood (1854) his father was named as David.

I can’t however, find any evidence of James Samwell
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Re: George William Samwell’s Parents

Postby sdup26 » Sun Nov 04, 2018 5:40 pm

I don't know if this will help or confuse, especially with the name changes - I can't find any Joseph Samwell birth registered in 1891, but a Joseph Samwell was born June Q 1892, Holborn, and his mother's maiden name was Winterford. In 1915, Joseph Samwell was 23, and a warehouse porter in Holborn when he married Elizabeth Lepere. On the marriage certificate, his father's name is given as Sidney George Samwell, but the word George has been crossed out and 'Joseph' added. Sidney Joseph Samwell was a bricklayer's labourer.

Searched for a marriage between a Samwell and a Winterford, and there's a marriage in the June Q of 1887 in Bethnal Green for plain Joseph Samwell (not Sidney George or Sidney Joseph!) to Emily Winterford. The marriage certificate shows that Joseph was 23, a brewer's servant, and his father was George Samwell, shoemaker, deceased.

The only mention I can find of a George Samwell having a father James, is a baptism entry dated Oct 1828, in Daventry, Northamptonshire - George William Samwell baptised Oct 1828, mother Sarah, father James. (A death entry for a James Samwell in 1852 wasn't George's father - he was a baby, mother's maiden name Gross.)
As you'll know, the surname Samwell (and variations) is quite common. Records for Daventry show the baptism of George, parents James and Sarah, and also baptisms for his assumed siblings David and Clara, showing parents as David and Sarah, who married in 1824. But no relationships are stated in 1841, so the George shown on that census living with Sarah and the children, may not have been her son. Maybe a relative, son of James and a different Sarah. It might explain why he said his father was James when he married Charlotte, but David when he married Susan - one was his birth father, and the other a father figure.
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