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Sidney Seymour Bottone adoption

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Sidney Seymour Bottone adoption

Postby vito74 » Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:30 pm

I am wondering if you can help me. I have a maybe relative. His name is Sidney Seymour Bottone. I have been told he was adopted by a Bottone couple. How do you get adoption certificates? I believe he was born on 21st February 1909. He died 1980.


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Re: Sidney Seymour Bottone adoption

Postby brunes08 » Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:21 pm

Formal adoption was not possible before 1927 in England and Wales (not sure of Scotland and Ireland). Prior to that date, adoptions were often just private informal arrangements between individuals. Some were a little more formal with a deed drawn up between the parties. There was no formal registration process until 1927. It is unlikely that you will find formal evidence of the adoption in question.


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Re: Sidney Seymour Bottone adoption

Postby peter kent » Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:33 am

There are a couple of things you can easily do yourself -

1. Get a copy of his death certificate - this will show his place of birth (which may or may not be accurate).

2. Get a copy of his marriage certificate (to Maud E Chambers). See what it says about his father's name and occupation. This may or may not be accurate but you need all the clues you can get.

Here are two Sidney Seymour births that you might like to think about...

Births Mar 1909
HOLT Sidney Seymour Hackney 1b 403
Miles Sidney Seymour Hailsham 2b 78
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Re: Sidney Seymour Bottone adoption

Postby sdup26 » Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:06 pm

The Broadway, Hadleigh, Essex, 1911:
James Botton, aged 40, store keeper, born Lower Sydenham
Isabel Botton, wife, aged 38, birthplace 'not known'
Lydia Marie Besson, single and described as a 'friend' b Guernsey
Sidney Seymour Botton, aged 2, adopted, birthplace not known
Frank Norman Botton, 1.8 months old, adopted, b Herne Bay
James and Isobel have been married for under a year.

As brunes08 says, 'formal' adoption didn't start until much later. Looking after a child, then effectively becoming its parents, wasn't uncommon. Is Lydia Marie more involved than being simply a 'friend'?
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Re: Sidney Seymour Bottone adoption

Postby ianbee » Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:52 pm

sdup26 wrote:The Broadway, Hadleigh, Essex, 1911
Frank Norman Botton, 1.8 months old, adopted, b Herne Bay

Born 13 July 1909, from later sources.
Could this be him? H.B. being covered by Blean reg dist.
NEWMAN, FRANK
Mother's Maiden Surname: —
GRO Reference: 1909 S Quarter in BLEAN Volume 02A Page 975

May give Vito some ideas for Sidney.
Mrs Botton seems to have started life as Isabella Georgina Guichard (1870, Bethnal Green), and possibly was first married to Albert Bader in 1888. Then came James Botton (1910, Rochford)
Birth
Dec 1911 Rochford 4a 1291
Botton, James Donald
mother Guichard

She had an ad in the Essex papers in 1925, wanting to adopt a young child!
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Re: Sidney Seymour Bottone adoption

Postby woodchal » Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:17 pm

I thought I would have a look at the adopted parents in the 1911 census. Isabella story is summarised below – she was a midwife – I wonder if that is how she came to adopt two kids? I cannot see any children from her first marriage.

- 1871 census Isabella Guichard, Aged 1, daughter of Charles and Isabella B Guichard born Bethnal Green.
- Marriage Isabella Georgina Guichard to Albert Bader on 16 Sep 1888 (b abt 1869) father Charles William Guichard (an umbrella maker)
- In 1901 census Isabel G Bader is a Lieutenant in the Salvation army working in a Maternity Home in Hackney
- Mrs Isabel Georgina Bader was a Certified Midwife in 1906 in Barking in 1906 Kelly’s directory.
-Then in 1910 Isabel G Bader marries James Botton Oct-Nov-Dec 1910 in Rochford Essex, Volume 4A, Page 1129. From Family Search
- Isabella probate gives death as 17 Nov 1932 and admin to Mabel Elizabeth Noakes (spinster). There is an alternative spelling given as Isabel Bottone.

I don’t know what happened to Albert Bader some researchers have him dying in 1943, although from a quick look I suspect that this may be the wrong Albert Bader – did Isabella’s husband die, was there a divorce or bigamy before Isabella married again.

1939 register gives Sidney’s Birthday as 21st February 1909.
Last edited by woodchal on Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sidney Seymour Bottone adoption

Postby woodchal » Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:28 pm

Frank and Sidney's birthdates would indicate they are not blood brothers. Charitable actions of the officer in the Salvation Army.

Would there be any Salvation Army records?
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Re: Sidney Seymour Bottone adoption

Postby woodchal » Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:36 pm

Ian's post would suggest that in Frank's case they kept the birth name. If they did this in Sidney Seymours case then getting the birth certificates for

peter kent wrote:Births Mar 1909
HOLT Sidney Seymour Hackney 1b 403
Miles Sidney Seymour Hailsham 2b 78


and seeing if they were born on 21st Feb would be the way forward.

Perhaps try Hackney first, as that was the area where she was a midwife, but then again Frank seems to have come from the south-coast.
Last edited by woodchal on Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sidney Seymour Bottone adoption

Postby ianbee » Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:39 pm

woodchal wrote:In 1901 census Isabel G Bader is a Lieutenant in the Salvation army working in a Maternity Home in Hackney
- Mrs Isabel Georgina Bader was a Certified Midwife in 1906 in Barking in 1906 Kelly’s directory.

Newspaper article about her.
Barking, East Ham & Ilford Advertiser, 9 December 1905
Attachments
Death of a Nurse Child.JPG
Death of a Nurse Child.JPG (145.78 KiB) Viewed 556 times
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Re: Sidney Seymour Bottone adoption

Postby elsabels » Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:56 pm

Albert BADER journeyman Baker is listed on the 1939 census dob 1 Dec 1868 wife Edith dob 31 Oct 1875 living at 92 Maryland Square west Ham

The couple married West Ham 1919 despite the fact they appear as a married couple om the 1901 census RG13; Piece: 373; Folio: 123; Page: 38

It is likely he died in 1943...Edith in 1950

Tower Hamlets Independent and East End Local Advertiser 04 May 1907
Albert Bader was ordered to pay £2. or ten days' hard labour, for wilfully smashing the glass panel of a door belonging to Mrs. Mete Bader. baker, Grundy Street, Poplar. The prosecutrix stated that the accused was her brother in law,
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