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Mary Ann Rogers

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Mary Ann Rogers

Postby Dia » Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:15 pm

was born in London, I have 2 dates depending which site I worked on, either 1811 to 12 or 1816. She married James Joshua Shipman on the 28th Feb 1841 in Bethnal Green, London. Her father on the marriage certificate is William Rogers, but I seem unable to find a birth mother for her. The two I have been unable to find so far are either Elizabeth or Mary, no surname yet, Please help.
Many thanks, Diana
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Re: Mary Ann Rogers

Postby elsabels » Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:44 pm

This is the family in 1841, James & Mary SHipman are listed after Phoebe as being in the same household
HO107; Piece: 711; Book: 5; Civil Parish: Stepney; County: Middlesex; Enumeration District: 17; Folio: 47; Page: 27; Line: 13
William Rogers 40 silk weaver born county Y
William Rogers 20
Robert Rogers 14
John Rogers 10
Mary Rogers 40
Sarah Rogers 15
Pheobe Rogers 10

Each needs checking for a baptism and potential mothers maiden name
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Re: Mary Ann Rogers

Postby Dia » Thu Oct 25, 2018 9:39 pm

Thank you for the help, but I think this is the wrong family, as the Husband is the wrong name
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Re: Mary Ann Rogers

Postby devonliz » Fri Oct 26, 2018 8:12 am

Um, I read elsabel’s post as saying that William and Mary are the parents of your Mary, who has now married James Shipman (just before the 1841 census, as you said) and is living in the same household as her parents and siblings.
Interesting to note that all the males in the household, even children, were listed by the enumerator before all the females. Is this always the way in 1841?
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Re: Mary Ann Rogers

Postby woodchal » Fri Oct 26, 2018 8:46 am

If you look at the entries below Pheobe in Elsabel's 1841 census you will actually see James and Mary Shipman both aged 20. So I think it is definitely the right family.

No - its not normal to list males and then females on 1841 census. Even if you look at the rest of the page on which these entries are found you will see that it is is not the case for the other families
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Re: Mary Ann Rogers

Postby woodchal » Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:07 am

Mary Ann Flexon might be a good candidate. Births start in 1821 so might tie in with marriage.

This is from familysearch:-

Name William Rogers
Birth Date 1800
Age 21
Spouse's Name Mary Ann Flexon
Spouse's Birth Date 1800
Spouse's Age 21
Event Date 08 Nov 1821
Event Place Middlesex, England
Citing this Record
"England Marriages, 1538–1973 ," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NJWC-MZK : 10 February 2018), William Rogers and Mary Ann Flexon, 08 Nov 1821; citing Middlesex, England, reference , index based upon data collected by the Genealogical Society of Utah, Salt Lake City; FHL microfilm 413,266.
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Re: Mary Ann Rogers

Postby ciderdrinker » Fri Oct 26, 2018 11:10 am

Hello
Her baptism is at St Leonards Shoreditch
Mary Ann d of William and Mary Rogers 8 june 1817 born 25 May 1817 weaver New Inn yard
brother William Charles at Whitechapel 6 Dec 1818 born Oct 19 of B Lion Yard weaver
James 21.5.1820 born April 30th also at Whitechapel
Joseph and Sarah bapt Feb 2 1824 born 29 Mar 1822 and 1 Dec 1823 B Lion Yard weaver

Back at Shoreditch
Robert New Nichols St weaver bapt 15.4.1827 born 27 March 1827
Pheobe 29.3.1829 born born 16th Swan yard

So Mary Ann is the eldest born in 1817 and they must have married before that.

Looks like when sister Pheopbe married at St Phillips Bethnal Green 3 Sep 1849 to Abraham Moll William may still have been alive as there is a William Rogers witness.
Address Hare St
ps William Charles also married there 14 Sep 1846 to Elizabeth Caroline Winall at 3 Peter St
Sarah 27.3.1843 All Saints New Town to John Ransome at 17 Hunt Court
Robert 20.1.1850 St Phillips BG to Elizabeth Merrick at 44 Wilmot st

If it was me I'd go for this baptism at St Mathew Bethnal Green
William Rogers s of William and Abigail Rogers weaver now at sea born 21 Aug 1797 and bapt 8th Sep 1797.
Marriage 13 July 1815 William Rogers of St leonards? and Mary Newton of the same widow at Christ Church C of London

Ciderdrinker
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Re: Mary Ann Rogers

Postby woodchal » Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:03 pm

Good spot ciderdrinker, so that rules out Mary Ann Flexon then.

However Elsabel's census is still Ok because ages were rounded down in the 1841 census
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Re: Mary Ann Rogers

Postby Dia » Sat Oct 27, 2018 9:47 pm

Thank you to everyone who has replied, I'm writing it all down and seeing where to go from here. I didn't know about rounding down the ages for 1841 Census, If anyone knows anything else please put it down, Thanks again, Di, x
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Re: Mary Ann Rogers

Postby woodchal » Sat Oct 27, 2018 11:32 pm

According to "Making sense of the census" by Edward Higgs, the actual instructions for recording ages in the 1841 census were confusing.

For persons aged 15 years and upwards, it is sufficient to state within what period of five years their age is, writing down the lowest number of that period: thus, for persons aged 15 and under 20, write 15 -- for 20 and under 25, write 20 -- for 25 and under 30, write 25 -- for 30 and under 35, write 30 --, and so on up to the greatest age; but the exact age may be stated if the person prefers it. For persons under 15, write the number of years; for infants under one year the number of months.

So people aged:
15-19 were recorded as 15
20-24 were recorded as 20
25-29 were recorded as 25
30-34 were recorded as 30...and so on

However there are many anomalies. Things were a little better in 1851, but many people didn’t really know how old they were and some people lied for a host of reasons.
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