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Kelly/Scott marriage...

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Kelly/Scott marriage...

Postby Marykelly » Fri Sep 21, 2018 10:55 am

The second brick wall I have been struggling with for a number of years is the marriage between John Kelly and Jane Scott.
John Kelly was born in Ireland abt 1835. His age does vary on census records between 1871 & 1891. He died in November 1891 and his death certificate gives his age as 56.
Jane Scott was born abt 1842 in Scotland and again her age does vary on the census records.
Her death certificate in 1907 gives her age as 65.

The first record I have for John and Jane is their names on the birth certificate of my great grandfather John James Kelly who was born 2nd November 1867 in the parish of St Oswalds Durham.

I then located the family on the following census;
1871 census at Queen Street, Whitworth, Durham.
1881 Tweed Street, Elswick, Newcastle.
1891 Deleval Terrace, Benwell, Newcastle.

John died while living at Deleval Terrace and Jane later moved with her daughter to Blaydon.
John and Jane had three children I have located, John James, Thomas William and Sarah Jane, but I have not been able to find any definite record of either John or Jane before my great grandfathers birth or a marriage record for them.

On my great grandfathers birth certificate in 1867 he is named as John James Kelly then on his marriage certificate in 1888 he gives his name as John James Davie Kelly.

Any help would be greatly appreciated :)
Last edited by Marykelly on Thu Sep 27, 2018 2:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Kelly/Scott marraige...

Postby sdup26 » Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:57 pm

I wonder if this is Jane Scott in 1861?
66 Scarborough Street, Stranton, Durham
Thomas Campbell, 37, Head, Minister of United Presbyterian Chapel, born Scotland
Grace Campbell, 36, wife, born Scotland
Jane Scott, 19, unmarried, house servant, born Scotland
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Re: Kelly/Scott marriage...

Postby Marykelly » Fri Sep 21, 2018 5:56 pm

To be honest I just don't know. I do have this census in my list of possibilities along with others.
One of my main problems is not knowing the years of birth for either John or Jane. In the census records their ages are given as....

1871 John age 40. Jane age 36.
1881 John age 50. Jane age 49.
1891 John age 67 Jae age 54
1901 Jane age 64

Johns death certificate in 1891 gives his age as 56.
Janes death certificate in 1907 gives her age as 65.


I have a possibility for John in 1861 which is
Patrick Dillon 28
Mary Dillon 25
Morris Gettins 25
Hugh Gettins 29
John Kelly 25

All were born Ireland and all the men gave their jobs as excavators.


:)
Last edited by Marykelly on Thu Sep 27, 2018 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Kelly/Scott marraige...

Postby sdup26 » Fri Sep 21, 2018 6:00 pm

On the birth certs of the 3 children, what was John's occupation?
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Re: Kelly/Scott marraige...

Postby Marykelly » Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:14 pm

Masons labourer and on his death certificate it states bricklayers labourer.
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Re: Kelly/Scott marraige...

Postby sdup26 » Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:18 am

It doesn't help that John and Jane's ages are all over the place. I found Jane Scott, in the household of Thomas Campbell the Minister, by searching for any Jane born 1835 +/- 10 years, living in Durham and born in Scotland. 3 names came up, but the other two were married, so that left Jane Scott, the Minister's servant. Unfortunately, there are a few John Kellys living in Durham but born in Ireland, and yours was a mason's labourer and a bricklayer's labourer, so hasn't got a 'fixed trade' to search under.

A possible clue might be naming patterns, not uncommon in Scots/Irish families. That is,1st son named for father's father, 2nd for mother's father, 3rd for father. 1st daughter for mother's mother, 2nd for father's mother, third for mother.
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Re: Kelly/Scott marraige...

Postby Marykelly » Sat Sep 22, 2018 6:08 pm

Hi. Yes I am looking at family names but even if I find possibilities I need something to help confirm them. I am having no luck with a marriage certificate in either Durham or Scotland.
I'm well and truley stuck. :(
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Re: Kelly/Scott marraige...

Postby sdup26 » Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:12 am

Like you, I haven't found a marriage. Scotland was worth trying; Ireland probably less likely, and it's also possible (but let's hope not!) that one of them wasn't free to marry at all.

Talking of Scotland, is this just a coincidence of names?
Scotland Births and Baptisms, Family Search:
John Kelly, baptised 22/9/1871, Ayr, Scotland. Father John Kelly. Mother Jane Scott.
* Adding this; have just seen a marriage in Ayr in 1862, between John Kelly and Jennet (?) Scott.
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Re: Kelly/Scott marraige...

Postby Marykelly » Sun Sep 23, 2018 5:13 pm

Yes sdup26 this is just a coincidence.
Another record I have found that may or may not be a coincidence is a birth for one
Edward Ferguson Scott in Blaydon in 1901. He was the son of James Scott and his wife Elizabeth.
Now the coincidence is that my great grandfather John James Kelly and his wife Jane nee Armstrong had a son born in Blaydon in 1902 who was called Edward Ferguson Kelly.
John James was of course the son of John Kelly and Jane Scott!
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Re: Kelly/Scott marraige...

Postby sdup26 » Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:13 pm

Just for interest - in case his mother was a Kelly! - I looked up Edward Ferguson Scott, and his mother's maiden name was Carr. A marriage between James Scott and Elizabeth Carr was in Gateshead, in the June quarter of 1881. And between James Scott and Elizabeth Carr in Gateshead, in the December quarter of 1887. Have you considered giving up family history and taking up hang-gliding? It would be better for your blood pressure.
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