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Emily Sophia Black - parentage & childhood (Victorian era)

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Re: Emily Sophia Black - parentage & childhood (Victorian er

Postby Elizabeth Nield » Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:43 pm

ianbee wrote:Brother Felix was sent to prison. I'm sure that Elizabeth knows this already.
Leicester Chronicle, 12 Dec 1896
Borough Police Court
Shop Thieves. — Felix William Black (20), alias William Smith, of Grosvenor-street, was charged with stealing from a rail outside a shop in Sanvey-gate, a pair of trousers, value 6s., the property of Joseph Hy. Shaw, on the 7th inst. — The evidence showed that the articles were missed from the shop, and were afterwards pawned by prisoner, under the name of Wm. Smith. When arrested by Detective-Constable Beamish, he admitted that he took them. — He was sent to prison for two months. — There was another charge of larceny against the accused, but it was not proceeded with.


:shock: I actually had no idea about this at all. Wow...
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Re: Emily Sophia Black - parentage & childhood (Victorian er

Postby Elizabeth Nield » Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:46 pm

sdup26 wrote:If Gustave Black was admitted to Birmingham Asylum in 1878, and died there in 1880, who was the father of Blanche Black, b1880 in Manchester?

In 1891, Elizabeth is with Thomas Smith, and her children Blanche and Felix Black. Sophia Smith appears on the 1901 census with a birth year of 1889 - where was she in 1891?
(Sorry, Ian has already asked this!)


My Ancestry tree tells me Blanche Rosella Black was born in 1878 in Manchester. No idea where Sophia Smith was in 1891, I've wondered that too.
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Re: Emily Sophia Black - parentage & childhood (Victorian er

Postby Elizabeth Nield » Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:49 pm

ianbee wrote:Blanche was in slight trouble in Leicester in June 1899
Young people summoned for damaging mowing grass on enclosed land....
Frederick Collins (22), shoe hand, Corah-street, and Blanche Black (21), shoe hand, Green-street, pleaded guilty to a like offence, on the same date, and they were each fined 2s. 6d., and ordered to pay the damage, 1s. each.
1901census

Where in 1891 was Sophia/Sophy Smith (mmn Manning) b Peterborough 1889?

An Emily Smith, Leicester girl, sent to industrial school in November 1897 for pocket picking. But she was only 9 years old (two out).
No sign in Leicester!


:shock: oh my goodness my family was really in a lot of trouble weren't they...poor Felix, and Blanche, and Granny Emily :( what does "shoe hand" mean?
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Re: Emily Sophia Black - parentage & childhood (Victorian er

Postby sdup26 » Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:12 pm

I can't find the birth of Blanche in the GRO birth index, nor on freebmd, either in Manchester or Northamptonshire, but ancestry has her C of E baptism record. It says 'Blanch Rosalie Black' was baptised 23/6/1881 at St Mary, Peterborough, father Gustave Felix Black, hairdresser, and mother Elizabeth Black, of Garden Row, Wellington Lane, Peterborough.
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Re: Emily Sophia Black - parentage & childhood (Victorian er

Postby Elizabeth Nield » Fri Sep 21, 2018 12:09 am

Well that's certainly her, though she'd be two or three years old by then. Is it possible she wouldn't have been baptised earlier for whatever reason?
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Re: Emily Sophia Black - parentage & childhood (Victorian er

Postby woodchal » Fri Sep 21, 2018 10:34 am

Two possible red herrings

1) There is a Sophy aged 2 in St Pancras in 1891 census, where "parents" look too old and the place of birth is not actually stated on form - could she have been sent to relatives?

Residence Place: St Pancras, London, England
Charles Smith 59
Frances Smith 45
Benjamin Smith 18
Rose Smith 22
Emily Smith 16
Sophy Smith 2

2) There is a Sophia with a mother name Elizabeth Black in 1911 census

Elizabeth Black Age 57
Florlnel Smith Age 29 (Florence?)
Sophia Smith Age 22

Did Elizabeth revert back to her first married name - there is also confusion on form as to whether Sophia is a step daughter or not
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Re: Emily Sophia Black - parentage & childhood (Victorian er

Postby woodchal » Fri Sep 21, 2018 10:37 am

You probably know that Felix was in the first world war and in Leicester City Mental Hospital in 1939, but thought it might be worth mentioning
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Re: Emily Sophia Black - parentage & childhood (Victorian er

Postby Elizabeth Nield » Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:31 pm

woodchal wrote:Two possible red herrings

1) There is a Sophy aged 2 in St Pancras in 1891 census, where "parents" look too old and the place of birth is not actually stated on form - could she have been sent to relatives?

Residence Place: St Pancras, London, England
Charles Smith 59
Frances Smith 45
Benjamin Smith 18
Rose Smith 22
Emily Smith 16
Sophy Smith 2

2) There is a Sophia with a mother name Elizabeth Black in 1911 census

Elizabeth Black Age 57
Florlnel Smith Age 29 (Florence?)
Sophia Smith Age 22

Did Elizabeth revert back to her first married name - there is also confusion on form as to whether Sophia is a step daughter or not


She might have been sent to relatives. I don't know enough about Thomas Smith yet to know who those might be. Emily Smith age 16 is far too old to be my Granny Emily but there's no reason they couldn't have a cousin with the name

It looks like Elizabeth may have reverted to her first married name for whatever reason.
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Re: Emily Sophia Black - parentage & childhood (Victorian er

Postby Elizabeth Nield » Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:32 pm

woodchal wrote:You probably know that Felix was in the first world war and in Leicester City Mental Hospital in 1939, but thought it might be worth mentioning


I did not know that, but thank you for mentioning it. So mental illness runs in the family? Or would this have been shell shock?
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Re: Emily Sophia Black - parentage & childhood (Victorian er

Postby woodchal » Fri Sep 21, 2018 11:40 pm

Felix's First world war record has his name as Felix William Blach, which I assume is a transcription error, with a birth date of 1878 and marriage date 27 May 1901 to Florence Annie Keen (mis transcription I think), living at 16 Wilton Cottages, Taylor Street Leicester.

The form is a Short Service Attestation and his regimental Number was 17831, various others are mentioned (with obvious transcription errors) - I think the fact that he names one of his daughters Blanche confirms it as being your man

Felix William Blach Self (Head) Spouse
William Arthur Blach Child
Doris Mabel Blach Child
Gladys Edith Blach Child
Blanche Revella Blach Child
Effie Georgina Blach Child

In the 1939 "pre-war" register I think we see him as Felix W Black, Male, Married, Birth Date 2 Sep 1875 in Leicester City Mental Hospital Humblistone, Leicester. Occupation- Incapacitated-Builders Labourer.
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