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Armstrong from Ox Hill, Kyo, Durham.

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Armstrong from Ox Hill, Kyo, Durham.

Postby Marykelly » Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:00 pm

I have two brick walls which I have been working on for a number of years and would appreciate help with.
1.
Mary Armstrong born 21st October 1868 at Ox Hill, Kyo, Durham, England.
She was the daughter of William & Sarah Armstrong nee Wilson.
I have found Mary in the 1871 and 1881 census living with her parents, first in Cornsay Durham and then in Rendal Street, Newcastle. In later census records her parents are still living in Newcastle but Mary is no longer living with them.
According to the 1911 census William and Sarah had 11 children although only 4 are still living.
The 4 remaining Armstrong siblings are incorrectly listed by William or Sarah on the 1911 census and this states that Mary was married and had given birth too 8 children although only four are at that time still alive.
I have been unable to find Mary after 1881 or any marriage record for her. I now think she may of emigrated or at the very least moved away from the Northeast but am struggling to find any record to confirm this.
Can anyone offer any help with finding Mary :?:
Marykelly
 
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Re: Armstrong from Ox Hill, Kyo, Durham.

Postby sdup26 » Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:08 am

The 1911 census asked the householder to list people who were in the house on census night, and I think William (assuming he filled in the form) didn't read the instructions properly, and just listed his family. So apparently, he had 7 children, all alive, but this was then crossed out. Wife Sarah had 11 children, 7 died, 4 still living. Daughter Mary was married and had given birth to 8 children, but only 4 at that time still alive. Daughters Mary and Jane, and sons John and William are listed, all as married, but no partners are present or named. And although Mary and Jane are 'married' they both still have the surname Armstrong. Altogether, it's a bit of a mess, and I'm not sure you can draw any conclusions from it as to whether or not Mary actually was married by then.
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Re: Armstrong from Ox Hill, Kyo, Durham.

Postby Marykelly » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:39 pm

Although Mary, Jane and John are listed as married William was actually listed as single, so
I have no reason to believe that Mary was not married in 1911. Surely if she was single they would of listed her as single, as they did with her brother William? I have confirmed that the marital status for each of her three siblings was correct.
I totally agree that William did not read the instructions properly which is why he put all his living children down with their birth name but he put he had 7 children born alive (later crossed out), not that they were still alive. He never got that far on the form.
All in all until I find the answers I cannot rely on the 1911 census too much!
Marykelly
 
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Re: Armstrong from Ox Hill, Kyo, Durham.

Postby sdup26 » Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:46 pm

I agree the 1911 census isn't much help, so I've tried elsewhere. Mary wasn't with her parents in 1891 when she would have turned 21, but she could have been unmarried and living in her place of work, maybe as resident domestic help or similar. I've also tried looking for a possible marriage for her, but as you'll have found, it isn't easy - who knew there were so many Mary Armstrongs born around the same year in the Durham/Newcastle areas? Have you any clues within the family relationships? For example, did her sister and brothers stay fairly close to where William and Sarah were living?
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Re: Armstrong from Ox Hill, Kyo, Durham.

Postby Marykelly » Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:07 pm

Mary's brother John stayed very close to his parents in the same area of Newcastle (Chapel Row and Chapel Court) and later moved to Heath Crescent. William remained in Newcastle and
Jane moved to Blaydon with her husband.
I have no record of William nor Sarah after 1911 so I do not know when they died or where they were living at the time.
:x
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Re: Armstrong from Ox Hill, Kyo, Durham.

Postby sdup26 » Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:19 pm

I'm seeing Armstrongs in my sleep! I started with William and Sarah Armstrong, and these are the only deaths that came up 1911-1921:
William Armstrong, b 1845, died Newcastle, Sept Q 1918, 10b 5, aged 73
Sarah Armstrong, b 1846, died Newcastle, Mar Q 1915, 10b 202, aged 69
Sarah Armstrong, b 1847, died Newcastle, Jun Q 1920, 10b 1, aged 73

Is this Jane in 1891? Jane Armstrong, born 1871 Durham, general servant in the household of George Gibson, All Saints, Newcastle. Also in 1891, in Urpeth, Durham, a Mary Armstrong is a visitor in the household of Stephen Emmerson, a deputy overman in a coal mine, and wife Margaret. Mary was born 1868 in Durham, and is described as Stephen's cousin. Does the surname Emmerson ring any bells, or is this Mary just a coincidence of name?
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Re: Armstrong from Ox Hill, Kyo, Durham.

Postby Marykelly » Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:29 pm

I know exactly what you mean with the Armstrong name :lol:

By 1891 Jane Armstrong was married and living with her husband John James Kelly in Townley Street, Blaydon, Tyne and Wear.
John and William are still living with their parents in Chapel Court Newcastle.

By 1901 William and Sarah are still living in Chapel Court with youngest son William.
Jane is living in Blaydon and John is now living in Dene Terrace with his wife Margaret who had also lived at Chapel Court.

By 1911 William and Sarah are now living at Chapel Row while John and his family are back at Chapel Court. Jane is still in Blaydon with her family and William is now, I believe lodging in Blandford Street, Newcastle.


I have previously checked out Stephen Emmerson without being able to find a conection.

:?
Marykelly
 
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Re: Armstrong from Ox Hill, Kyo, Durham.

Postby sdup26 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:36 pm

I thought I'd found Mary - there's a marriage for a Mary Armstrong to Alexander McCartney (SQ 1889, Newcastle 10b 21). They're on the 1891 census - Alexander b 1866, Mary b 1865, and Elizabeth Ann b 1890. In 1901, they have 4 children. Elizabeth Ann, Mary Ann b1893, Joseph Irvine born 1896, and Henry b 1898. The GRO birth index shows all the children have mother's maiden name as Armstrong.

Mary's father William said on the 1911 census that Mary had 8 children, 4 living. I checked the GRO birth index, which shows that altogether, between 1889 and 1905, 8 children were registered in Newcastle as McCartney, with mother's maiden name Armstrong, while the death index shows that four McCartney children with mother's maiden name Armstrong had died. Mary Ellen in 1891, Alexander in 1898, William in 1902 and Irvine in 1905.

This was all looking hopeful, until I found a tree on ancestry, which has Alexander McCartney married to a Mary A Armstrong (note the middle initial) whose parents were Thomas and Ann nee Wilson; she's on censuses with them as Mary A. However, Alexander's GRO marriage entry and subsequent censuses have his wife as plain Mary. The only way to be sure would be to get the marriage certificate and see who his wife's parents were. The 4 living McCartney children I found are listed on the tree but not the others. I haven't found Alexander and Mary in 1911 (neither has the tree owner) but an Alexander McCartney is on the Electoral Roll in Quality Row, Byker in 1903, and in Little Blagden Street in 1907.

Anyway, that's what I've found, and you can decide what you think.
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Re: Armstrong from Ox Hill, Kyo, Durham.

Postby Marykelly » Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:36 pm

Thank you for this.
I had previously rejected Mary Armstrong who married Alexander McCartney because the place and date of birth are both different to the Mary I am looking for.
I had also noticed that Alexander and Mary Ann McCartney had a child called Irvine which was the name of Mary Ann Armstrong's grandfather but not a name that had ever appeared in my ancestry line.
Also Mary and Alexander had 9 children in total.
All in all this led me to believe that it is not worth taking this line any further.
:)
Marykelly
 
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Re: Armstrong from Ox Hill, Kyo, Durham.

Postby avaline » Sat Sep 15, 2018 11:58 pm

You could always make a speculative request to the GRO without any of the usual references and they will do a search of the requested district & year, plus one year either side. You can stipulate that the father must be William.

If they can't find a marriage that matches then your fee will be refunded and you can start again with the next 3-year stretch. It takes longer than when you provide references but its worth a try.
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