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Illegitimate children

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Illegitimate children

Postby Steamangie » Wed Aug 29, 2018 5:58 pm

Evening all,

I’ve just picked up my family tree again, and stumbled in to a bit of a road block.

My 2x Great Grandmother Alice Thomason nee Ball (married Robert Thomason) seems to have had at least 3 children with Robert in the space of 10 years between the 1871 census and 1881 census.

However at the 1881 census she is living back with her parents. At the next census 1891 she has had two more children.

When looking at the Gro website, I’ve found these to births under the name of Thomason but the mothers maiden name is blank?

I’ve a suspicion that Robert had died before the 1881 census (can’t find him), does the fact that no maiden name is on the record suggest that those two are illegitimate and that Robert is dead at this point? Or is He still around and worth looking for?

Thanks in advance

Angie
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Re: Illegitimate children

Postby Mick Loney » Wed Aug 29, 2018 6:43 pm

Angie,
Absence of a mothers maiden name in the GRO records, does tend to mean that the child is illegitimate. However, with the surname of Thomason, are these entries perhaps children of one of her daughters?
In the censuses, a child born outside the child-bearing age of the mother, is a good indication she is hiding the fact that one of her unmarried daughters has given birth to an illegitimate child, so tends to say that the child is hers!

Just today I saw a ‘son’ entered in a census, supposedly born when mother was about 45-50, but the christening record confirmed the child was actually born to her 22 year old daughter.

So my first suggestion is to see if you can find a christening for these children. Some vicars are pretty blunt when entering christenings for illegitimate children, often referring to them as base born or even bastards. :D
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Re: Illegitimate children

Postby Steamangie » Wed Aug 29, 2018 7:25 pm

Evening,

Thanks for that I’ve never thought of looking at it that way before. I’m definitely going to be looking at other families in my tree with this in mind.

Although I don’t think this is case here, She is fairly young at this point and her previous children are under 10 when the others are born. I might go down a sister route.

Hopefully the certificate will shed light on it.

Thanks
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Re: Illegitimate children

Postby woodchal » Wed Aug 29, 2018 8:25 pm

The usual thing to say is that if the child's surname on the birth register is the same as their mother's maiden name and no maiden name given then that is a good indication of illegitimacy.

However it is her married name she that is being used - her maiden name would still be Ball whether she was still married or widowed.

In my tree I have a widow that had more children after the death of her husband, without remarrying. She used her married name (it IS her name after marriage after-all) for the child's surname and her maiden name. She even had them baptised a few years later naming her dead husband as the father. It is all driven by the need to create an air of respectability.

Therefore I do suspect that these two extra children were the offspring from a Thomason - sister-in-law, niece, daughter etc
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Re: Illegitimate children

Postby woodchal » Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:14 pm

There are two (what appear to be) well researched tress on ancestry that suggests that Robert is living elsewhere in 1881 (Burscough) and 1891 (Keighley), with his name given as Thompson (still a tailor from southport). This might be worth exploring.

I found a few more births with Thomason/Ball - perhaps some died before the census

THOMASON, MARY Mmn BALL 1872 D Quarter in ORMSKIRK Volume 08B Page 723
THOMASON, ALICE ANN Mmn BALL 1873 M Quarter in ORMSKIRK Volume 08B Page 710
THOMASON, MARGARET Mmn BALL 1874 J Quarter in ORMSKIRK Volume 08B Page 749
THOMASON, WILLIAM Mmn BALL 1876 S Quarter in ORMSKIRK Volume 08B Page 773
THOMASON, GEORGE HENRY Mmn BALL 1879 M Quarter in ORMSKIRK Volume 08B Page 839
THOMASON, THOMAS Mmn BALL 1881 J Quarter in ORMSKIRK Volume 08B Page 808

What are the names of the two children with blanks for Mmn
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Re: Illegitimate children

Postby Steamangie » Thu Aug 30, 2018 5:08 am

I too have found Robert Living away in both the 1881 and 1891 censuses. The place born and occupation do match the 1871 census before he married. So that one could be him.

Mary, Margaret, and William belong to this family and are seen on both the 81 and 91 censuses. The other two are Richard and Ellen born 1881 and around 1886 (I don’t have my notes to hand). Alice does have a sister in law of the same name. So they may be hers. Or Robert could of kept Popping back, so to speak. As I’m struggling to find a matching death that fits correctly.
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Re: Illegitimate children

Postby ianbee » Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:02 am

All those children were baptized at Christ Church, Southport.
Including
Richard, 27 December 1883, parents Robert + Alice Thomason, father a Tailor
Ellen, 1 April 1888, parents Robert + Alice Thomason, father a Tailor
Abode Southport.

It seems unlikely that anyone other than Alice was the mother! If she gave the info that we see on the baptisms, and if she was the informant on the birth registrations, then it's a matter of whether she told the whole truth or gave the full details.
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Re: Illegitimate children

Postby woodchal » Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:52 am

Steamangie - In your first post you said "I’ve a suspicion that Robert had died before the 1881 census (can’t find him)" In your latest post you said "I too have found Robert Living away in both the 1881 and 1891 censuses."

Which version is it?

Ian - when you say all those children, did you mean including the extra ones I had identified?
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Re: Illegitimate children

Postby Steamangie » Thu Aug 30, 2018 11:36 am

The truth is, is that I’m not sure if the Robert Thompson in the 81 and 91 was my relative or not so I had two options he did die before 81 or for some reason he was not home for the two censuses and it is him.

Thanks for all your pointers it’s make me feel like I’m slowly getting over the brick wall.

If it is Robert in the 1891 census it throws up a new mystery who is William he is living with? As there is a older william with Alice in the same year. Best get back to the research

Thanks again
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Re: Illegitimate children

Postby Steamangie » Thu Aug 30, 2018 11:41 am

ianbee wrote:All those children were baptized at Christ Church, Southport.
Including
Richard, 27 December 1883, parents Robert + Alice Thomason, father a Tailor
Ellen, 1 April 1888, parents Robert + Alice Thomason, father a Tailor
Abode Southport.

It seems unlikely that anyone other than Alice was the mother! If she gave the info that we see on the baptisms, and if she was the informant on the birth registrations, then it's a matter of whether she told the whole truth or gave the full details.



Thanks I’ve not seen those two records before, it definitely supports the view that the Robert Thompson in yorkshire in 91 is the correct one
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