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Baptism found but no birth record

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Baptism found but no birth record

Postby Kenthemusketeer » Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:33 am

I now have 2 examples of having found baptism records for ancestors (one from my mother's side of the family in Shipton under Wychwood in 1810 and another from my father's side recorded at 'the Consolidated Chapelry of Penrhos' in 'the County of Montgomery' in 1855). I have tried multiple sources but can't find a birth record for either. As a relative beginner at this, I'd appreciate any help that anybody can provide.
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Re: Baptism found but no birth record

Postby Mick Loney » Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:45 pm

The General Records Office of UK only began registering births in 1837, so before then, the only records you will find of Births, Marriages and Deaths are parish registers. These will take you back, if you’re lucky, to around mid 1500’s. What the situation is in US I don’t know.

The church of Latter Day Saints (Mormons) have a vested interest in these records, so have made great efforts to film/microfiche a lot of them.
They have made transcriptions of these films, and have made these freely available on their FamilySearch website. Lately, they have also been making the images themselves available, although some are restricted to actual members of their church. You will have to create a free account with them before searching, which has no obligation on you to join the church!

If you live near a local archive, pay them a visit, as many of these also have copies of the Parish registers to browse. I know for example that West Glamorgan Archive, located next to Swansea Library has a very large collection Registers for local parishes, which you are welcome to browse.

I think the above should get you going, and they are all free! If you wish to invest in a subscription, sites such as Ancestry and FindMyPast have vast record seletions, for you to search.

My advice though is to start with the freely available records first, and only when you have exhausted these sources, consider a subscripiton site.

Good Hunting
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Re: Baptism found but no birth record

Postby Mick Loney » Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:50 pm

If you care to name the individuals you are having problems with, along with as much of their details you have found so far, I’m sure someone will come to your assistance :D
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Re: Baptism found but no birth record

Postby AdrianB38 » Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:15 pm

Kenthemusketeer wrote:... the Consolidated Chapelry ...

Now that's an interesting phrase I've never seen before. A little Googling leads me to
Chapelries were of two kinds: a district chapelry if the new district was carved out of a single existing parish; or a consolidated chapelry (CC) if it was created out of more than one.

( See http://www.yorkshire-milestones.co.uk/all-about-waymarkers/boundary-markers/65-chapelry-boundary-stones)

To interpret (I hope) that for anyone who's not used to the terms:
- a chapelry is the area officially allocated to a chapel;
- there is only one church in each parish (this is Church of England terminology);
- all other places of worship in a parish are chapels;
- I think that a chapel need not have a chapelry officially allocated to it;

The Consolidated Chapelry sounds like it's an area officially allocated to a chapel that covers bits of 2 or more parishes.

I think the above is right... Interesting, as I say.
Adrian
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Re: Baptism found but no birth record

Postby AntonyM » Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:22 pm

Your 1855 birth should have been registered - usual reasons why you have trouble finding it are that the birth wasn't in the district you think, was a year or two either side, or that it is indexed under a different name (if the parents weren't actually married for example).

And - there are some births that just never got registered, especially in the early days of registration.
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Re: Baptism found but no birth record

Postby Mick Loney » Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:29 pm

Following on from Adrian’s answer, in the early days of registration, the onus was on the registrar to find out about births/marriages/deaths in his/her area! Eventually, the responsibily moved onto the parents, with a threat of a fine if they didn’t register within time.
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Re: Baptism found but no birth record

Postby Kenthemusketeer » Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:44 pm

Mick Loney - thank you for explaining the pre-1837 situation. I haven't checked the LDS website yet but I have checked both Ancestry and Find My Past and some others with no result.Looks like I'm going to have to go to Llandrindod Wells (for Penrhos) and Oxford. The two individuals were Samuel Gibbs, son of Richard and Nancy Gibbs of Bruern Grange, baptised at Shipton under Wychwood on 10 March 1809. However, Bruern is described in the register as 'an extraparochial Place adjoining to this Parish'. The other person is William Clayton, son of Elizabeth and William Clayton, baptised 23 December 1855 in Penrhos, Montgomeryshire. Your comment about responsibility is very interesting. Is there a date at which responsibility shifted to the parents?

Adrian B38 - yes, I assumed that the record was for a chapel that crossed the boundaries of one or more chapel areas. Incidentally, the reason that I put the phrase in quotes is that it shows the wording exactly as it appears in the baptism register.

Anthony M - thank you for the suggestion but I'm assuming that the baptism in each case would have been close to the parents' home and certainly within the counties identified in the baptism records. In the case of Penrhos, for example, the chapel record places it in Montgomeryshire (although the baptism record is held at Powys archives) while Shipton under Wychwood is solidly in Oxfordshire. Beyond that I've searched up to 10 years either side of the dates on the baptism records and the baptism records show the names of both parents in both cases.

Thank you all for your interest.
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Re: Baptism found but no birth record

Postby woodchal » Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:08 pm

Have you explored these? GRO give's Mothers maiden names (Mmn), which may tie it in for you.

Name: William Clayton
Registration Year: 1853
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration district: Newtown
Parishes for this Registration District: View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District
Inferred County: Montgomeryshire
Volume: 11b
Page: 229

GRO has CLAYTON, WILLIAM Mmn JONES
GRO Reference: 1853 M Quarter in NEWTOWN Volume 11B Page 229


Name: William Cleaton (sounds like Clayton)
Registration Year: 1855
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration district: Llanfyllin
Parishes for this Registration District: View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District
Inferred County: Montgomeryshire
Volume: 11b
Page: 230

GRO index has

CLEATON, WILLIAM Mmn LLOYD
GRO Reference: 1855 D Quarter in LLANFYLLIN UNION Volume 11B Page 230
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Re: Baptism found but no birth record

Postby Mick Loney » Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:05 am

Registration began on 1st July 1837, but didn’t become compulsory until 1874 (when responsibility moved to parents). The dates for Scotland and Ireland are different. Try this article from Soc of Genalogists’ website, which explains in more detail:
http://www.sog.org.uk/learn/help-gettin ... uide-three
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Re: Baptism found but no birth record

Postby Mick Loney » Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:41 am

You say you've looked on Ancestry, so have you seen Samuel Gibbs in a tree there?

Samuel Gibbs born 2 Dec 1810, Grange farm, Bruern, Wife Sarah Clark
Married 29 Nov 1843 Barton on Heath, Warwickshire

Parents as Richard Gibbs born 11 Mar 1770, Oxfordshire, wife Nanny Guy
Married 1 May 1797 Chipping Norton

Richard's Parents John Gibbs and Alice Clack

Now whilst I wouldn't take the information in on-line trees as correct, (e.g. Samuel's date of birth doesn't tie in with his christening in 1809!) without a very thorough check yourself, they often point you in the right direction, so always worth you having a look. This is a link to Richard's entry:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/ ... 9675/facts
(login first)

If this is your Samuel, Ancestry show him and Sarah in 1871 at Duddeston cum Nechells, Aston, Warwickshire (RG10 Piece 3144 Folio 44 Page 29). Whilst looking at that, Ancestry shows hints to 1851 census, Samuel's christening and Marriage, and potential christenings and marriage of possible children.

Mike
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