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Researching Irish Ancestry

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Researching Irish Ancestry

Postby phillie » Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:04 pm

I am trying to trace my great great grandfather's family. His name was Thomas Allen and he was born in 1839 in Ireland. He married in February 1861 and the address on his marriage certificate was Loveday Street in Birmingham. His father Michael was a Church Warden. On the 1861 census, however, he is not at Loveday Street, but Nelson Street. Living at Loveday Street, however, was a Patrick Allen and his son Michael. They came from Roscommon but I don't know if they are related to Thomas. Patrick was born in 1811 and Michael was morn in 1842. Subsequent census just say Thomas was born in Ireland. I'm not sure if he came from Roscommon or not. Unfortunately Allen is a very common surname and not knowing where in Ireland he came from means I've hit a brick wall. There was talk in the family of him coming from Cork or Dublin, but I don't know where to start to find out more. I don't know if it's possible to trace Thomas' father who was a church warden. Thomas was Catholic so his father could have been a church warden at a Catholic church, but whether that was in Ireland or not I'm not sure. Are there lists of church wardens that I can search.

Any help would be gratefully received.
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Re: Researching Irish Ancestry

Postby AdrianB38 » Sun Aug 05, 2018 11:07 pm

Irish genealogy techniques can fill books, such are the holes in the records. I always suggest starting with and lots of coffee.

Are there lists of church wardens that I can search?

That's an interesting question... I've never seen any - in fact it's difficult enough trying to track down clergy, never mind lay persons with a position in the church.

Regrettably, I have this horrible fear that the only way to do it, is to hack it out by identifying each church in turn and finding data sources for each - probably in the local Record Office - that list people who are office holders in that church. You could grow very old trying to find your way round that lot....

Maybe newspapers might be a better bet - church wardens are generally of some reasonable standing in the community so might appear in newspapers for various reasons, some of which might be connected with the church.

All better ideas gratefully accepted.....
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Re: Researching Irish Ancestry

Postby MayHam » Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:37 am

Was looking at Thomas' marriage record on Ancestry. ... ource=7619

It looks to me like Michael is the parish clerk for All Saints, Hockley, which I believe is Anglican?
Searched the Anglican database of clergy because, sometimes, clerks are listed, but no luck. I also couldn't find the Priest J.B. Gabriel, so am thinking the database dates aren't completely up-to-date. You might try writing, though. ... /index.jsp

You may also find the following helpful?
Removals of graves and tombstones of Birmingham area cemeteries, 1778-1958
item 11. St. Mary's burial ground, Loveday Street, 1778-1876. ... %20Library

Marriage Licence Bonds
Allen, Michael, 1835, Green, Eliza ... rch=Search

Elphin (Co. Roscommon)
Allen, Patrick, 1831, Sandys, Jane ... rch=Search
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Re: Researching Irish Ancestry

Postby ianbee » Mon Aug 06, 2018 7:33 pm

His address on marriage to Sarah Walker (11 Feb 1861) was 11 Court Loveday Street, and Patrick Allen + family were at 11 + 8 there in the census (is that meaning number 8, 11 Court?). So it is certainly interesting.
There are catholic baptisms of Thomas + Sarah's children in Birmingham.
Godparents for Rhoda Sarah were Michael Allen, Jane Allen, those for Thomas Michael in 1866 were Patrick Allen, Eleanor Allen
Baptism Rhoda Sarah Allen.JPG
Baptism Rhoda Sarah Allen.JPG (27.34 KiB) Viewed 1241 times
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Re: Researching Irish Ancestry

Postby MayHam » Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:14 pm

Patrick was living with his daughter, Ann Heath, in 1881 and appears to have died in 1885.

Name: Richarum Heath
Spouse's Name: Annam Allen
Event Date: 24 Apr 1876
Event Place: St. Peter, Birmingham, Warwick, England
Father's Name: Richardi Josephi Heath
Spouse's Father's Name: Patritii Allen

England and Wales Census, 1881
Name: Ann Heath
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1881
Event Place: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
Registration District: Birmingham
Residence Note: Ford Street
Gender: Female
Age: 38
Marital Status (Original): Married
Relationship to Head of Household: Wife
Birth Year (Estimated): 1843
Birthplace: Ireland
Page Number: 29
Registration Number: RG11
Piece/Folio: 3008/71
Affiliate Record Type: Household
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
Richard Heath Head Male 35 Badlam, Warwickshire, England
Ann Heath Wife Female 38 Ireland
Patrick Allen Father In Law Male 70 Ireland

Deaths Dec 1885  
Allen Patrick 72 Aston 6d 220

Ann wasn't living with her father in 1871. The following Ann appears to be the daughter of John.
1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Hampton Street, Great Court House, Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
Mary Allen Head - Female 69 1802 - Ireland
Ann Allen Daughter - Female 30 1841 - Ireland
Bridget Allen Daughter - Female 28 1843 - Ireland
Mary Ann Law Grandchild - Female 15 1856 - Warwickshire, England
John Law Grandchild - Male 13 1858 - Warwickshire, England
James Law Grandchild - Male 10 1861 - Cheshire, England ... 0020083649

Name: Elizabeth Allen
Gender: Female
Age: 23
Birth Date: abt 1827
Marriage Date: 5 May 1850
Marriage Place: Birmingham, St Philip, Warwickshire, England
Parish as it Appears: Birmingham, St Philip
Search Photos: Search for 'Birmingham, St Philip' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
Father: John Allen
Spouse: William Laws ... ource=8860
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